To ask HOW he/they or she/they works?

[Henuinequest]

On a DE&I video call at work and the session panel did intros with pronouns stated - 2 of them said ‘I’m he/them’ and one said ‘she/they’. All panellist were trans identifying.

asking a practical question - if someone is he/ them, I’m fine just to to refer to him as he or him? As in ‘ let’s wait 2 mins to see if Josh is coming. He said he could make it’ or I’m I supposed to be saying them ??
the panel was all about trans day of remembrance or something like that so it didn’t feel appropriately to start asking them…

Someone else brought up DSD and I asked what they are if they’re not men or women. I didn’t bring them into the discussion.

Do you mean they said all TW did that? Because if so that's unacceptable and you can report it. If they said that TW have the same offending patterns as other males and that some people will use or fake a trans identity to access women then that's born out by.research and is nothing like racism and homophobia

This was the quote:
Trans hatred? I don't see women screaming threats of rape, murder, spitting and shouting down transpeople, it's always the other way round. Right minded women just want their rights and safety upheld and not trampled on

Whether you take that to mean trans people as a whole are threatening rape and murder against women or not is subjective I suppose, but that’s how it read to me.

I think you've got a typo in there somewhere. I'm not accusing you of lieing. I just wondered if people had said you're not Bi because you only date men or something. There seems no other sensible reason to exclude you.

So I think where we've got to is straight is same sex attracted, L and G are opposite sex B is both and everything after that has nothing to do with the sex of the person you're attracted to and is used by people who want to tell you about their identity and the identity of the people they're attracted to instead. You've not shown any exceptions which make queen anything different from what L G B cover.

Some people would consider your conceding that straight is same sex attracted transphobic btw. It's dangerous close to TERF territory if not actually in it.

There's nothing in that which can be reasonably taken to mean trans people as a whole. That's so far from showing trans hatred as to be laughable.

There's nothing in that which can be reasonably taken to mean trans people as a whole. That's so far from showing trans hatred as to be laughable.

Totally agree, but I'm sure the poster knows they're grasping at straws.

Anything else?

I’m currently in a relationship with a man, but my longest relationship was with a woman. The people in my current circle all knew me when I was in a relationship with a woman so I don’t know why they think I’m something other than bisexual. I’d say in general yes, straight is opposite sex attracted, and gay is same sex attracted, and bi is both. But I think a straight man dating a trans woman doesn’t make them gay - if a trans woman presents as a woman and appears to be a woman, then they are treated as such. My beliefs around trans people relies mostly on them “passing”, which I accept is problematic. If a trans woman is “post-op” and looks like a female, how does anyone looking to approach them romantically know they’re anything other than a female? I don’t really mind if anyone thinks I’m a TERF lol, I’m not necessarily a trans activist, nor would I class myself as a TERF, but for me what people choose to do with their lives is their business. I also don’t understand the subject enough to form an opinion, despite significant research. I don’t know what it feels like to be trans, so I don’t understand it.

Come on, where is the evidence that trans people threaten to rape and murder women?

Srsly!

There's even websites dedicated to recording it. A famous Scottish author could wallpaper her house with them.

please link them.

www.Terfisaslur.com

You may find the many, many screenshots there illuminating in terms of many, many threats. The 'kerb stomping' ones are particularly disturbing; who actually can envisage doing that to a living person?

You may also want to check out some of the replies to JK Rowling today. I believe one supporter of TQ+ politics asked if she would like a cock in her mouth to shut her up. You may like to look at the New York art gallery exhibition that celebrated TQ+ politically violent threats including a blood stained t shirt and the threat to punch 'terfs' and barbed wire wrapped baseball bats for the punishment of non compliant females. I believe all this was originally carried in a Pride parade.

Try Twitter, 'your view in my mentions' I think was the hashtag, where many TQ+ male people took photos of themselves with weapons, a machete was one of them, posed as if standing over and attacking a body, directly referencing what they would like to do to non compliant women. There was the TW who photographed themselves in a women's toilet brandishing a sword and threatening what they would do to a woman who dared to challenge their presence there.

Then there's Veronica Ivy - who was Rachel Mckinnon at the time - who said that non compliant women should die in a grease fire, (specifying a more awful and painful way to die than mere fire). This is the same person who says that lesbians should 'learn to cope' with heterosexual sex rather than distress male people with the words 'no thank you'.

I can find you more examples if it helps: these are just the threat ones.

www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16691573351442&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fuk-england-57853385

Link fail: my apologies. terfisaslur.com/

The blood stained t shirt is on the front page.

amp-france24-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.france24.com/en/live-news/20211122-j-k-rowling-reveals-death-threats-over-transgender-row?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16691576340700&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.france24.com%2Fen%2Flive-news%2F20211122-j-k-rowling-reveals-death-threats-over-transgender-row

Christ, point well and truly proven. The stories on the bbc link are disgusting, and some of the images on the TERF is a slur site are terrifying. It’s not necessarily just from trans people though, but from trans activists too. It’s not very helpful to the trans cause though, and I wouldn’t want people threatening to kill and rape homophobes in my name. I’d genuinely never seen that stuff before, it’s vile.

I'm off to bed but just wanted to say that I think it's a problem to think TW pass. Some will. It's rare. Think of Eddie Izzard, Alex Drummond. There's no way they experience female oppression as they look like every other male just in different clothes. Taking a few hormones doesn't change that either. Think of some.conrroversial swimmers and other high level sportspeople. They look like men in different clothes.

Even those who do get genuinely mistaken foe actual women when clothed are biologically different. You can't unandrogynise a body. Even those who do pass don't have the history and upbringing of female oppression and can't experience the health conditions which medicine has decided to neglect because its just women who are affected.

I agree that it’s rare, but I’ve seen a lot of TW on social media who genuinely do pass. I suppose that’s on social media though so you don’t know how accurately they’re portraying themselves online. Regarding the history of oppression, I suppose how early on in life they transition and therefore pass, and what their experiences are like afterwards. They’ll never experience the same struggles regarding health as biological women though, that’s true.

You're right, it is unbelievably disturbing. Sorry to open your eyes in that way, I wish mine hadn't been either, but this is the reality we have to face.

And you are also absolutely right that this is not all 'trans people' or TQ+ identified people. This is a political lobby, many of whom are not themselves TQ+, and I have seen the way that they speak to and treat TQ+ people who dare to try to say that the lobby does not speak for them, or to share thoughts, experiences or views of being TQ+ that do not fit the political lobby's narrative. You only have to see how detransitioners are treated.

The people they are threatening are invariably not transphobes so I think that parallel doesn't work. They are just women who think we should have sex segregated not gender segregated spaces. Most such people are very happy for the trans people who respect this to live their lives and be free of harassment and bullying whilst so doing. In whatever clothing they want.

There will always be some years of being the most valued group.in society so its never equivalent to being female. Yes re social media. Its a fantasy life not reality. I live in Brighton. I see TW all the time. Its very obvious. There may be some who really do look like women but it must be rare surely or there'd be at least some in the public eye given how many obviously male TW their are there?

I’ve seen a lot of TW on social media who genuinely do pass. I suppose that’s on social media though so you don’t know how accurately they’re portraying themselves online

Indeed. I take social media photos with a pinch of salt- you can almost guarantee photos are heavily filtered.

A couple of days ago, I saw a thread on Twitter in which a poster had shared pairs of photos of prominent TW. One filtered, ‘tuned’ photo alongside a candid photo. The differences were staggering. The filtered photos made the TW look like women; in the undoctored photos they looked like men wearing make up and dresses.

It did feel like rather a cruel thread so I felt a bit conflicted looking at it, but most of the TW featured had been particularly unpleasant to women at times (and some had been downright predatory and threatening- Yaniv for example) which made me feel somewhat less conflicted about it.

Transmen often pass better but are usually much shorter than men which can ruin the effect somewhat (even though, yes, short men exist).

People who physically transition at a young age are likely to pass better by circumventing puberty and going straight to cross sex hormones. Some in the trans community see this as a great thing, but I suspect the rest of the population see this for the very troubling situation it is.

Sickening. The lengths people will go to to deny this is happening…

The thing that people who haven't come across this need to realise is that this isn't about gay rights in the slightest.

Stonewall, who position themselves as Gay Rights V2, their CEO called actual lesbians 'sexual racists'. They employed the male who devised courses about 'The Cotton Ceiling' which is about how to break through lesbians underwear'. It is truly vile.

Mermaids, who position themselves as LGBTQ++ for kids, their CEO [how can I put this delicately] took her child's toys away until he said 'I'm a girl' to get them back, then ordered drugs off the internet to shrink his penis, then had it removed in Thailand on this 16th Birthday [they banned this after she did it], all because his dad didn't want a gay son.

This is the total opposite of Gay Rights. It is the most homophobic activism going so much so that 2 gay rights veterans have been attacked, called 'Faggot' and had coffee poured on them, one at a PRIDE event. It is shocking homophobia pretending to be 'inclusive'. And woe betide anyone who resists.

It's why they are so demanding about pronouns. They know you know what sex they are but woe betide you refer to them as their sex, you'll be into HR and out of a job before you know it.

It might be quite challenging for anyone who is neurodiverse, has a brain injury, a speech impediment, or for someone who's first language is not English.

I'm none of those things, and I can't keep up.

It almost seems like it's designed to trip you up so that they can have a tantrum.

What if someone isn't ready to come out? They'll either be forced to out themselves before they're ready, or misgender themselves which might cause them distress. At least if not everyone does it they can keep quiet without attracting attention.