For welcoming Jennifer Anniston’s honesty about her struggle to have children

[RhubarbRocks]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63576100

As someone who went though multiple rounds of unsuccessful IVF in my late 30s and early 40s it’s good to see this normalised in the news. It sometimes feels very isolating when you can’t have children (not least here when it’s sometimes questioned why childless women are here - I joined during ivf and have stayed for all the other non child related chats!)

So not really an AIBU but maybe a question/observation about the assumptions we make about whether a woman does/doesn’t have children.

Please just stop.

You've no idea how upsetting you are on a thread about people living with chidlessness.

My husband is infertile. We started trying at 32. We were turned down for IUI and would need to engage a donor for sperm. We were also turned down for adoption because I have a disability.

You clearly have no empathy at all for people like me. It's not all a lifestyle choice. I certainly didn't choose this life. I had no choice in it. I didn't meet anyone in my 20s, like lots of other people.

Piss off with your victim blaming and go start another thread to slag off the childless please.

Thanks for the link to the article OP, but crikey - if anyone wants to know how difficult it might have been for Jennifer they just have to read this thread! She should have adopted, she put her career first, she was too thin, she should have just got on with it when she was married to BP, she should have used a surrogate, donor egg, frozen her eggs etc etc And then all the ludicrous speculation about her previous relationships about who said what to who based on nothing more than celebrity tittle-tattle journalism. Interspersed with some really moving contributions from people who do actually understand based on their own experiences. My takeaway from all of this is that sometimes is just doesn't happen for whatever reason and you may never know why, but offering helpful hints and making insensitive remarks is NEVER appropriate. And we should always be kind because you don't always know what other people are going through.

This is what I didn't understand. How could she not have known?!

With her money she could certainly have adopted and bought in lots of hired help etc to pitch in even if she was single at the time.

But she's right to bring up how hurtful speculation about these things can be.

@JessicaTooManyRabbits lucky you!
Will you stop judging people who don't follow your narative? You have absolutely NO IDEA and yet you keep parading your "achievements" to the rest of us, the selfish, adventourous lot who wasted our "fertility" years travelling and getting drunk!

You do not know this woman.

I agree. From what I've read it is a matter of public record that Pitt was indeed abusive.

The lengths that some posters go to to blame the woman regardless of objective facts is concerning. I can only think its internalised misogyny/social conditioning.

You can be infertile at any age and the only way to figure that out is basically to try getting pregnant.

There's several posters on this thread alone who have struggled with infertility before the age of 30. There is no guarantee that the outcome would have been different had she started trying 5 years before.

Likewise, you see women in their early and mid 40s having kids all the time.

So how could she or anyone have possibly known?

Neither do the people on here who are 'applauding' her for her 'honesty'. But you chose me to respond to....

most early twenty somethings have their mind on their next big night and what they’re gonna wear, travel, uni/post grad, their career, houseshares and flat mates, Ibiza with their pals. Etc etc
*
which is exactly how it should be!*

Who are you to dictate to other women how their lives 'should be'?

Maybe we should be looking at why our patriarchal society coerces women into spending their most fertile years (fertility decreases from age 25 not 35 as most believe) shopping, spending, propping up the profits of the rich (men) in society and thereby sacrificing their only chance to have dcs.

I had dc in my 20s. At the time it looked like I'd hit the raw deal when I'd see pics online of school/uni people travelling to exotic places, driving swanky cars, renting in hipster neighbourhoods etc. But now so many of them, who as far as I was aware all expected to get married and have dc, are childless at an age where that's not going to change. I have teens and some freedom, leisure time/ social life back. I wouldn't change it.

Women are duped into these frivolous 20 something years like it's some kind of extended childhood. It does us no good in the long run to promote this lifestyle.

Why don't we make it easier for women to have dcs in their 20s (ie free 24/7 childcare) rather than setting them up to fail as we do now?

Having dcs was my number one priority in life. Leaving it until your 30s can be too late for many women. We need to speak more loudly about this.

(Also that it's ok to have a baby on your own, waiting around for a man is often a bad choice for a woman)

I can certainly see why women (and men) experiencing infertility might not want to talk about it. Some posters on here range from crashingly insensitive to borderline sadistic.

Totally. Many people are breathtakingly insensitive or infuriatingly smug.

Why don’t you try IVF/adopt/use a surrogate/enjoy being an auntie/godmother 🤬

Why didn’t you plan your life like mine? Because there was no element of luck or circumstance involved, it was all just meeeee being so inspiringly organised and fertile 🤮

The majority of women who are commenting are doing so to respond to the topic of public's perception of childless women. People are relating to the comments because of their own struggles with trying to conceive. This is a topic which is generally difficult to have a conversation around as women are often dismissed as leaving it to late, prioritising their careers, not liking children etc.

Aniston's revelations are opening up a forum for this discussion and open a new perspective on the medias obsession with her childlessness and indeed all women who are childless. That was clearly the focus of the thread.

Why would any response to women talking about their own experiences with infertility and the insensitivity they received be 'but Aniston's a liar' and 'she's making it all up'?
What kind of person would do that?

Maybe because your mental gymnastics is astounding? You’re assuming she’s lying, rather than taking her at face value

Someone who pays attention. Why is it really passing your understanding that a woman especially like Aniston who is a celeb with adoring fans and a mega, and I mean mega, fanbase, that "can't wait to see her mini Jens" etc would have to lie to save her career? Why are you truly not able to perhaps consider that as a possibility? That a woman may not have wanted children but had to stick to the narrative for all her soccer mums fans? This is my point. People can't see the pressure on women to have children, on a hot celeb to have babies and make the fanbase happy. That you can't see this is a real thing actually goes to prove my point. People just can't..... put the idea together that she may not have wanted them. It's a personal affront to them.

Not mental gymnastics at all, I think on the contrary, it takes mental gymnastics to continue to willingly believe she wanted them. Your post proves my point. That the mere thought she might not have wanted them, sends you all into a tailspin, because you just can't accept that, even for one moment, as a possibility.

That's my entire point.

And the above replies to me are exactly why she had to keep up the act.

These were My thoughts too.

I am actually shocked that some women/people in "real" life would have the nosiness/insensitivity/coldness to ask a woman why she has no children, or is she trying for one or having fertility treatment. Do people actually do this?

How awful. I can't imagine the type of person who would do this. It is the business of the woman only and no one else. Sorry I am probably over reacting. But I don't think so personally.

errrm, mental gymnastics doesn’t mean taking the person in question at face value and listening to what she’s saying.

Of course I can accept that someone (many people) doesn’t want any children.

What is ridiculous is someone saying “I tried to have children but it didn’t happen for me” and you thinking “ah, poor dear. She has to pretend that she wanted children even though she clearly didn’t”

Its mind boggling and a total reach

It sounds like you don't understand that circumstances sometimes make it very hard to stick to a particular window.ajd that everyone's window is quite different. I had a child at 42. I was super lucky and many would.be but some.wont.

Also, saying she could have just adopted is one of the most ignorant statements you can make a out infertility. Adoption is an amazing thing but it's very, very different to having your own biological child. You are doing both parents and kids up for adoption a massive disservice by conflating the two.

From what I’ve read I come to the conclusion that she likely couldn’t have kids herself as she left it too late. It certainly does sound like that when she speaks about freezing her eggs. Of course there’s no guarantee she would have gotten pregnant had she done that but it sounds like she thinks that would be the case. She chose to leave it so late, perhaps because of the narrative that you can have kids into your 40s. Some women can, most can’t. I think it’s a dangerous narrative for people to be pushing tbh. I have several friends who started ttc in their late 30s and none of them have, in spite of IVF.

I applaud her for talking about it, although the cynic in me wonders about the timing with Matthew Perry etc… They certainly seem to want to stay relevant. As someone who struggled with infertility in their 20s/30s I don’t find it especially comforting to hear though.

Because her behaviours over the years don't match up to her trying. Whether it being 6 movies back-to-back when she promised Pitt she'd take that year off to have a baby, the papping of her all the time partying and drinking and smoking, plus the fact that her best friend, Courteney Cox, set up a foundation with the sole entire purpose to get women talking about their troubles conceiving, to break down the walls of silence etc and Cox was extremely vocal about celebs needing to speak out about their troubles and not be silent etc, it stands to reason Aniston would have spoken her truth then to lend a hand to Cox and to break the wall of silence.

Now, now, after she's hit menopause she says it? After all this time, all this of mentioning babies in almost every interview (it was her go-to schtick)? But says nothing nil now she's hit menopause? No sorry I (and many, many others who have followed over the years) don't buy it.

Yes they are individuals and they react differently to trauma. That does not negate the fact they have experienced trauma. And removal of both parent is a well evidenced trauma along with in utero exposure to stress, DV, maybe drugs, maybe alcohol etc. And the vast majority of babies adopted will have been in foster care first.

On the dog page when people adopt a dog that’s had 2-3 homes in its life the thread is full of poor dog, no wonder it has separation anxiety etc. Are you really suggesting a newborn baby has no trauma as a result of this? Even if they handle it well and it does affect them it does not take away their experience and you as an adopter are doing a disservice to not acknowledge that.

I'm sure many women can relate.

Waiting often leaves women with fewer options when trying to conceive.

Yet having a baby under 35 is seen as young on MN.

There'll be countless pp's saying they and their friendship group were 36 onwards, it isn't always realistic.

I think the sooner women stopped being punished for having child while working.

Also other women need to stop reassuring younger women they've time for it all, career, travel, success and DC later.

Bottom line is if you really want children you need to start trying earlier.