Is this weird - work related - is it cultural?

[cofingalthetime]

So just to start - I'm Irish.
So I work in a office in a small team. Colleagues has been off for 3 weeks. The first week she was off I asked the team leader was she ok, and she said she it was "personal". So of course I respect people's privacy and didn't want to pry and so I didn't ask anything or mention it again. I was in the office with TL and one other girl yesterday. And I just happened to say to the other girl "I hope X is ok, she has been off for a while" and the girl said did I not know, but X's brother had been murdered! I was so shocked, and upset that I didn't know. I asked her had flowers or a card not been sent -and she said no - that not even our Head knew what happened, that the TL hadn't told anyone, and this girl had heard it from a completely different friend of X's. (X is friends with people outside our dept, she's worked there for years).

I said we should organise at least a card from our team, to let her know we were thinking of her. That we should maybe send flowers... that I'd be happy to chip in if the company didn't want to pay (notoriously stingy).

Team leader came back into the office and we both said it to her and she said 'no no' we are not to organise anything like that. Why not I said? And she just said kept saying 'no no'.

THEN, Team leader said she had been in touch with X and had told her she needs to come back to the office as it's been 3 weeks - X had apparently been doing working from home, and some compassionate leave, and some annual leave. X asked to work from home for the time being (she lives a long way - we are doing 3 days in, 2 days wfh) but team leader said no, she has to come back properly. She even said to X that she will arrange for her to work in this horrible little office we have - that has no windows - and she can work in there on her own if she doesnt want to sit in the office with us???? I was gobsmacked. She said she has told X she needs to get signed off by a doctor or come back asap. Fair enough I know - even though managers are allowed to "use discretion" when it comes to working from home and personal circumstances - this manager likes to follow the rules to the letter. More than that though - why can't we send a card? Is that an "English" thing?? I know in Ireland there's no way nothing would have been done by now. I feel so sorry for X that she has had nothing from her work colleagues at all. I mean, am I wrong or?? Feel so bad. Have bought a card and will send it myself if team leader won't let us send a group one.

Maybe you're not supposed to know? If your colleague has asked tl not to share....
Poor thing though, thats awful. Tl is being a dick making her come in.

It sounds like it's just that workplace or the colleague asked for it to be kept quiet for whatever reason.

It's not necessarily a cultural thing at all. 🤔

We aren’t supposed to initiate contact with colleagues who are off sick in case it’s construed as pressure to return to work, could it be guidelines like that?

team leader is a culture all of their own though by the sound of it, what an arsehole.

I think you initially sounded caring but now sound a bit over invested. you clearly aren’t close to your colleague and your tl cannot discuss other peoples personal issues with other staff

But you cant keep a bereavement a secret can you? Or can you...

If I had a bereavement or a tragedy like that I would be really upset if nobody from work said or did anything.

I remember being off for a few days holidays year ago, and my grandmother died, and I rang in and told my supervisor I'd need a few more days to go to the funeral etc. (DIfferent job). Anyway, supervisor told nobody, and I was so upset. When I went back to work everyone was coming up to me saying 'did you have a nice holiday'. It was so awkward. I was really upset they didn't give me a card or even say they were sorry for my loss. And I didn't want to have to tell everyone one at a time. So I just left it and said 'yeh holiday was good thanks'. BUt I was v upset about it at the time. I felt like nobody gave a shit.

Maybe this colleague doesn't want lots of people to know - she's clearly told people she's closer to (the colleagues in the other department), and not told other people.

But you cant keep a bereavement a secret can you? Or can you...

Why not? In your case with your grandma, it sounds like your manager didn't want to assume you were happy for people to know. Some people wouldn't want colleagues bringing it up at work and its probably better for a manager to err on the side of caution with that. It's not their place to tell people about someone else's loss.

Your managers are far better placed than you to judge this obviously sensitive matter. They know all the relevant facts which they are legally obligated to keep confidential. I don’t believe that would be any different in Ireland.

Your constant demands for confidential information about your colleague's circumstances are unreasonable and wrapping them up in faux concern and compassion does not make you any less of a nosy-parker. It is obviously none of your business. Your colleague knows where you are if she wants to share details of her personal circumstances with you. She obviously does not.

You are not entitled to know anything about her that she doesn't voluntarily share with you. I'd be furious if a work colleague of mine was so hell-bent on sticking their nose in my private business.

Three weeks leave without a medical certificate sounds extraordinarily generous to me. In fact, your whole post suggests your employer is acting in a wholly lawful and reasonable manner.

For goodness sake mind your own bloody business.

thanks for the clarification. FFS.

You sound way too invested. Just leave it. Colleagues like you make my anxiety sky high - I don't even share if I have a husband or kids with my colleagues.

OK, its definitely a cultural thing then.

I just hope I never suffer a bereavement here. So cold and uncaring you all are!

I think it’s a private matter not to be shared around the team. If people have found out inadvertently then of course they can express sympathy, but I think a whole team card is inappropriate.

Irish here - English attitudes to death are very different. I’ve worked in places where you’d just get a short out of office saying somone was on bereavement leave for about 5 mins, and that was it - no acknowledgement or flowers from the office.

I made a faux pas of turning up to a funeral of an aquaintance here in England and it was family only. At my Dad’s funeral in Ireland, people who I had been at primary school with and hadn’t seen since turned up!

Good god.what a gossip you are. Stop feeding off this tragedy. Respect the woman’s wishes and friggen leave her be. It’s not about you. Butt out

Please don’t send the “sorry your brother was murdered card”.

Somebody has been in touch with your colleague and is likely to have asked how to address it with the rest of the team. If the management think a card is not suitable then take your lead from that. You apparently aren’t even supposed to know so sending a card is going to tell her that people are gossiping.

As to your own situation, you were on holiday so people are going to ask about your holiday. You could have always replied that it wasn’t the best because unfortunately your grandmother died.

Yeh what about all the other bereavements in the office - I was constantly signing card for people who had losses - I specifically remember a colleague whose mother died, and some of us even went to the funeral to support her. And another colleague whose granny died, and we all signed a card for her. And another colleague whose son died, and we went to the funeral. And all sent flowers.

And this girl IS a friend. She was off for 6 weeks in the summer with medical problems, and I never asked or enquired why she was off, and when she came back she was shocked nobody knew anything,- she told me everything that had happened.

Maybe the colleague doesn't want people to know.

I'm a very private person, and I've had to take extended time off before. I told my manager what was going on, but I didn't want any information to be given to the wider team. It was none of their business.

Hi OP. I'm Irish too working in England. I think in England people dont know so much personal stuff about their colleagues as in Ireland. Three weeks without a note is very generous though! I think my places gives 3 days or something ridiculous

It's difficult as a line manager, if the person involved hasn't been in touch with other colleagues. You can't break a confidence without consent.

In my team, in these circumstances, our HoD would say x is off and I'm sending flowers on behalf of the team (senior managers they would be able to tell for business reasons would probably chip in), those who knew (assuming someone did) would mostly likely tell the rest quietly. It's helpful when people return that colleagues know why they've been off no one wants questions coming back from a marriage breakdown/bereavement/serious illness etc.

“Constant demands”?
“Faux concern”?
”hell bent on sticking their nose in my private business”?

have we read the same op or did you suck on a lemon before posting?

It's a cultural thing. I lived in London for 13 years and never attended a funeral. I came back to Ireland 20'years ago. I go to at least one a month.

Bloody hell I'm not a fucking gossip!!!!!! I care about a work friend is that such an evil thing??? I'm sad for her - she was really close to her brother, she has a very close family, I'm empathetic. I CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Honestly, I'm really surprised how COLD English culture seems to be around death.

I think your coming from a good place.

However as someone who lost their brother I would not say/do anything.

I agree TL is being wholly insensitive and is similar to how my direct manager at the time acted with me. I worked through 2wks of brother being in hospice, going to see him on my lunch, then we had a 2 weeks wait for funeral. Company only gave 1wk compassionate leave and I took a week unpaid. Was told that they had to check if anyone else was on holiday first.

To be honest, the hardest part work wise was my first day back. It made me feel ill with anxiety. I just wanted to get my head down and do my job. People repeatedly addressing it was horrendous and to be honest grief made me really angry in the face of other peoples sympathy. I couldn't avoid people knowing as my brother was I'll and most of our town knew about him but I asked a friend to ask people to not address it.

When she comes back just be there as a support if she wants to use you but do not say anything, please.

I would guess that the circumstances around this particular bereavement are so distressing that the colleague just doesn’t want anyone to know so that they don’t have to talk about it

As a general point I would agree that a bereavement should be marked and the team should send a card or flowers.

But in this particular scenario where it’s clearly incredibly sensitive and highly confidential I can understand that it wouldn’t be appropriate for everyone in the team to know. This person may well have asked for details to be kept confidential and the managers need to respect that.

I think your instincts are kind but there is a place in these situations to back off and allow the people who are fully in the loop to manage it. I think you need to drop it.

I think people take their lead from the person who has suffered the loss. This colleague of yours hasn't told you, and clearly hasn't asked your team leader to make people aware of why they're away etc. Respecting that is not cold and uncaring, it's the opposite. Your colleague could have chosen to say to your team leader something along the lines of "please let the team know why I'll be off for an extended period of time" and in that case, you sending condolences would be more appropriate.