Is this weird - work related - is it cultural?

[cofingalthetime]

So just to start - I'm Irish.
So I work in a office in a small team. Colleagues has been off for 3 weeks. The first week she was off I asked the team leader was she ok, and she said she it was "personal". So of course I respect people's privacy and didn't want to pry and so I didn't ask anything or mention it again. I was in the office with TL and one other girl yesterday. And I just happened to say to the other girl "I hope X is ok, she has been off for a while" and the girl said did I not know, but X's brother had been murdered! I was so shocked, and upset that I didn't know. I asked her had flowers or a card not been sent -and she said no - that not even our Head knew what happened, that the TL hadn't told anyone, and this girl had heard it from a completely different friend of X's. (X is friends with people outside our dept, she's worked there for years).

I said we should organise at least a card from our team, to let her know we were thinking of her. That we should maybe send flowers... that I'd be happy to chip in if the company didn't want to pay (notoriously stingy).

Team leader came back into the office and we both said it to her and she said 'no no' we are not to organise anything like that. Why not I said? And she just said kept saying 'no no'.

THEN, Team leader said she had been in touch with X and had told her she needs to come back to the office as it's been 3 weeks - X had apparently been doing working from home, and some compassionate leave, and some annual leave. X asked to work from home for the time being (she lives a long way - we are doing 3 days in, 2 days wfh) but team leader said no, she has to come back properly. She even said to X that she will arrange for her to work in this horrible little office we have - that has no windows - and she can work in there on her own if she doesnt want to sit in the office with us???? I was gobsmacked. She said she has told X she needs to get signed off by a doctor or come back asap. Fair enough I know - even though managers are allowed to "use discretion" when it comes to working from home and personal circumstances - this manager likes to follow the rules to the letter. More than that though - why can't we send a card? Is that an "English" thing?? I know in Ireland there's no way nothing would have been done by now. I feel so sorry for X that she has had nothing from her work colleagues at all. I mean, am I wrong or?? Feel so bad. Have bought a card and will send it myself if team leader won't let us send a group one.

As a Line Manager I would ask the employee if the wanted others to know or not and if not I’d tell people it’s personal and I can’t discuss but still send some flowers from at least myself to say thinking of them.

If I understood correctly. The person off sick doesn't want anyone else to know about the death of her sibling which is why the manager isn't organising a collection of any sort.

This. If you don't make the removal to the funeral home then you definitely should be at the funeral Mass. if someone's holding the fort
At work, that's explained to the bereaved colleague.

probably wouldn't even occur to many English people to go to the funeral of someone they have never met?

No, definitely not. I'm 50 and I've only been to 3 funerals in my life! I can't imagine why I'd go to the funeral of someone I've never met.

I’m English and I would send a card myself as a friend just to say “It wasn’t announced at work but I heard about your news and I’m so sorry for your loss” etc. She might eventually appreciate talking about returning to work with a colleague friend rather than your miserable fucker of a boss. Totally fine to be friends with colleagues and have a caring relationship beyond the office. The English are pretty strict/strange about what is or isn’t appropriate in a work scenario but you sending your own card doesn’t apply to that.

I don’t think it’s wrong of you to wonder why a “sorry for your loss” card and flowers haven’t been sent. Perhaps TLs are worried it would imply it has been gossiped about in the office. Has it been in the local news?

It's hard to tell from your post. I suspect it isn't cultural but the boss being a bit of a dick if I'm honest.

I understand the want for privacy but ultimately murders generally make the news and I think its naive of anyone (including the manager) to think that people wouldnt find out about this. At work, when someone is off for the best part of a month, it's going to be because they are ill, something bad has happened to them or a family member so it's really hard to expect that team member to just walk back into the office without anyone on their team being curious about the reason even when it's none of their business.

I know my company would be 'take as long as you need' if something like this had happened, in the circumstances its clearly a one off and pushing someone back to work before they are ready is going to be counter productive. But your manager sounds like a twat if there is the option to work from home and it works well but she would rather your colleague came into the office and worked in what sounds like a cupboard by herself.

When I was off sick for quite a while my work sent cards and flowers...it made me feel a lot better about returning.

I don't think YABU but I think your boss probably is

Yeah, there is. How would she find out the colleague’s address? And how would she explain the fact that she knew about the death?

You don't go for the deceased, you go to support your friend/neighbour/colleague

What the TL was saying 'No, no' to was a suggestion/demand that colleagues do so off their own bat.

The company most probably has already sent some flowers/card on behalf of all colleagues.

In this scenario, I'm much more concerned with a TLs apparent lack of confidentiality in discussing how someone's leave has been managed (annual leave, wfh, windowless office etc.) than there being no office collection for flowers etc.

I agree with this. I think English people are awful with bereavement.
And expected to come back to work after a horrific bereavement is normal here.

This is nuts. In your position, I’d have probably messaged her to say I had heard, and that I was very sorry for her and her family, and that she could depend on me when she returned to help as much as I could with her workload. And, you know, just be a human.

Surely if they considered you a close colleague, or a friend, they would have spoken to you directly. The fact you only know the facts through gossiping should tell you everything you need to know.

In England, funerals are often private affairs with close friends and family. In Ireland, people tend to attend funerals for anyone and everyone. Yes, they are culturally different but that doesn't mean either is right or wrong.

If she really is a friend she may have told you herself. Having a family member murdered isn’t a “normal” bereavement-it’s happened within my extended family and the usual cards and flowers don’t help.

Have a think to yourself and have some proper compassion towards your colleague, and take a fucking telling!

I think it is a cultural thing maybe. I'm in NE England and if I was off for any length of time my manager would ask permission to let my colleagues know what was going on. If I'd said no then they would not be allowed to tell them a thing.

We do all send flowers and cards though if someone has a bereavement. I've been to the funerals of close colleagues' (more like friends) relatives before.

There was only one lady who doesn't like to show any emotion at all at work who told the manager that no one was to mention her Grandma's passing as she didn't want to talk about it.

If your colleague wanted workmates to know about the death of her brother she would have asked TL to let it be known. She didn't.

She has signalled very clearly that she wants complete privacy. NOT to have to endure any questions, looks, handholding, hugs, knowing everyone has speculated about what happened and how her family is coping.

All you can do for her is to respect her choice and do it her way. Do nothing, say nothing.

I hate the idea that managers are always “far better placed” to understand the correct behaviour at all times. I’ve worked for some absolute bastards with very little understanding of workplace law, GDPR, training and development, social etiquette, even before we start on their empathy.

YANBU.

It's none of your business. If she wanted you to know, you'd know. Just be kind, polite and leave it at that.

Also Irish, I'm thinking from some of these comments it's cultural, if not for England then at least for that particular workplace. If that happened in my workplace they'd send something from the entire office on everyone's behalf even if the person had asked their manager to keep the reason why they were off quiet. I'd be embarrassed to think someone in my team had been off a long time and nothing had been done or said incase they felt unwelcome or uncared for. Then again I work in a really caring environment and maybe the nature of some workplaces make it different and more corporate. Doesn't really do much to inspire loyalty and workplace satisfaction I'd imagine though.

Strange replies on this thread!
It would be the norm in every place I've ever worked to send flowers and a card following a bereavement (England) unless she has specifically said please don't inform work colleagues then I agree it's odd not to acknowledge it.
It would also be the norm to attend the funeral if you were close friends. A few work colleagues came to my sisters funeral to support me.

I think you're massively overstepping and in her shoes of be pissed right off at you for sending me a card. You're making this about you. I dodnt tell anyone when I was going through something because I didnt want the pity eyes or enduring the awkward sympathy.

Wait til shes back, say hello and how is she doing and see if she tells you. If she does then she is content for you to know and express sympathy.

I would hate to walk back in to work knowing everyone knows and giving me the sad eyes.

Your boss could send flowers. Or you could if you were friendly enough that she had told you herself. You trying to find her address to send a card would be awful.

Maybe she doesnt want one and has expressed it. When I lost someone close I kept having bloody letters come though and it it was retraumatising to have to open the pity package. So when it happens again the first thing I'll be doing is asking people I've told not to send them.

@antelopevalley

I think English people are awful with bereavement.

They are awful with bereavement, but this isn't just a bereavement. It's a scenario where someone has been murdered and its pretty clear that the bereaved has expressly asked for the details to be kept confidential.

Her wishes take precedence over cultural mores and ultimately discussion over whether the English or the Irish approach to death is better is irrelevant.

In this scenario unless the OP has been told herself by the bereaved it would be totally inappropriate.

Surely it's not simply because they're a manager, but in this case they may well be better placed to know what the colleague would want since they are the one who has had contact with them. If they have been asked by the colleague to keep it private, of course they can't then arrange a group card! I appreciate we don't know if they've been asked to keep it private but it seems likely.

You're being dramatic.

Honestly @cofingalthetime ignore all these bloody harpies on here. Just because they work in shitty places where everyone hates each other and keeps secrets doesn't mean you have to.
Send a card and offer a shoulder to your work colleague. Also give her some backup with horrible team leaders plans for her return to work.