Is this weird - work related - is it cultural?

[cofingalthetime]

So just to start - I'm Irish.
So I work in a office in a small team. Colleagues has been off for 3 weeks. The first week she was off I asked the team leader was she ok, and she said she it was "personal". So of course I respect people's privacy and didn't want to pry and so I didn't ask anything or mention it again. I was in the office with TL and one other girl yesterday. And I just happened to say to the other girl "I hope X is ok, she has been off for a while" and the girl said did I not know, but X's brother had been murdered! I was so shocked, and upset that I didn't know. I asked her had flowers or a card not been sent -and she said no - that not even our Head knew what happened, that the TL hadn't told anyone, and this girl had heard it from a completely different friend of X's. (X is friends with people outside our dept, she's worked there for years).

I said we should organise at least a card from our team, to let her know we were thinking of her. That we should maybe send flowers... that I'd be happy to chip in if the company didn't want to pay (notoriously stingy).

Team leader came back into the office and we both said it to her and she said 'no no' we are not to organise anything like that. Why not I said? And she just said kept saying 'no no'.

THEN, Team leader said she had been in touch with X and had told her she needs to come back to the office as it's been 3 weeks - X had apparently been doing working from home, and some compassionate leave, and some annual leave. X asked to work from home for the time being (she lives a long way - we are doing 3 days in, 2 days wfh) but team leader said no, she has to come back properly. She even said to X that she will arrange for her to work in this horrible little office we have - that has no windows - and she can work in there on her own if she doesnt want to sit in the office with us???? I was gobsmacked. She said she has told X she needs to get signed off by a doctor or come back asap. Fair enough I know - even though managers are allowed to "use discretion" when it comes to working from home and personal circumstances - this manager likes to follow the rules to the letter. More than that though - why can't we send a card? Is that an "English" thing?? I know in Ireland there's no way nothing would have been done by now. I feel so sorry for X that she has had nothing from her work colleagues at all. I mean, am I wrong or?? Feel so bad. Have bought a card and will send it myself if team leader won't let us send a group one.

It IS cultural. In Ireland it wouldn't be a secret, it would be shared knowledge, colleagues might ahve gone to the funeral, everyone would know and would have sent flowers, a card etc.
Death is much more shared and talked about in Irish culture. OP isn't over invested, she's just foreign! Don't put your anxieties on her.

Some of these answers don't even make any sense.....you cant send flowers as it could be seen as pressure to return to work...but she IS being actively pressured to return to work anyway?

OP, don't let the onslaught of private Brits tell you that there is anything wrong wtih your culture, they will feel free to be offensive and judgy mainly because they forget that you are actually from a different country and culture that they don't fully understand but don't realise they don't as they forget its not part of the UK!!

It's 100% a cultural thing - I'm Irish and have been in London for nearly 20 years. But in the same way that you're not a nosy parker or over invested, you're just Irish, they're not cold or uncaring, it's just treated differently here. I prefer the Irish way myself, but then I would...

"But you cant keep a bereavement a secret can you? Or can you...
Why not?"

Because it would be in the paper, even an ordinary death there is likely to be a death notice and for a murder much more than that!

Is your friend/colleague English or Irish herself? I guess if she’s Irish, then you may have a point, and she might be expecting more fuss (sorry, not the right word, can’t think of a better one). If she’s English though, maybe consider that she really doesn’t want people to know.

Personally, I can’t think of anything worse than the feeling that colleagues are gossiping in such horrific circumstances. Even a normal bereavement, I wouldn’t want work colleagues to know and I would hate to receive cards and flowers from them.

I’m talking in general about the competency of managers as a whole - and the ability to question behaviours. Some people accept just anything just because a manager told them to do something. We should always be able to raise a question in the workplace without being told No you can’t have an opinion as I’m the manager.

I’ve worked in places where the TL was the one spreading the gossip and sharing other peoples medical details. When questioned they’d say oh you don’t understand GDPR and don’t need to so don’t worry. Just because they are TL, doesn’t mean they are correct and OP is automatically wrong.

So much English hate on here. Just because we handle bereavement differently to the Irish doesn't mean we are awful with bereavement. There isn't only one way to handle bereavement. It's a shame culture differences can't be respected.

I’m Irish and would send her a card and flowers to let her know I was thinking of her.

No I don't think it's a 'Britsh/English' thing - probably more to do with your office and the individual involved.
A member of my team has had a bereavement this week, we have sent flowers and a card and there will be a collection for the relevant charity.
We are a large organisation and have a bereavement network which was started by my friend who lost her husband at a young age.
I would share with my colleagues if I had a bereavement but I wouldn't expect them to turn up at the funeral, except one or two who are proper friends ie not just a colleague.

For crying out loud it's not just a bereavement.
Your poor colleague's brother was murdered.

Do you not have the wit or empathy to work out that she will NOT want to discuss this at work? Fend off commiserations, however well-meant, or deal with gawping concern trollery?

Why can you not respect her wishes & leave this alone?
Even if you cannot do that, why can you not respect your employer's direction, & leave this alone?

It's not cultural. Its bleeding obvious.
Leave it the fuck alone, & when your colleague returns, do NOT raise the subject with her. Or anyone else. Follow your colleague's lead 100%.

Work might be the only space she has where she can pretend life is 'normal' for the next howeverlong. Don't go messing with that. Also - stop virtue signalling. Your colleague's wish for privacy trumps your wish to prove yourself a caring person.

To sympathise with your friend/colleague.

@Arayes it's the OP who is judging and being culturally insensitive by deeming Brits 'cold and uncaring' just because we don't handle grief in the same way as Irish people do. It seems she has forgotten she has moved to a different country with its own culture.

I am English and have been to funerals of my friends relatives to help with flowers and food and arrangements and to support them/buy them a drink.

Exactly this. It’s not a normal bereavement.

@rightkindofwrongg

you clearly aren't close to your colleague...

This wouldn't wash at all in Ireland as a reason to simply ignore a violent bereavement - or any kind of death really - in a colleague's family.

I do think this is a big cultural difference between Ireland and the UK, and the team leader/ manager, etc are hiding behind privacy laws because they feel awkward and don't know what to do.

Hear hear! Different cultures behave differently in all sorts of situations. Doesn't make any of them right or wrong.

In the case of how English treat bereavement compared to Irish, neither is wrong. Neither is uncaring.

We should all respect each others' cultures.

Have bought a card and will send it myself if team leader won't let us send a group one.
Despite being categorically told not to?

Despite the fact that it might greatly upset your colleague to know that people are discussing the tragedy she has asked her workplace to keep private?

If I were your line manager & found out you had flouted this clear directive, I would have you on a disciplinary faster than you could bleat "but I want to send a caaaaaaaaaaaard it's all about meeeeeeee".

Yep it’s a brit thing.
I work in Ireland but colleagues and clients across U.K. and Europe. Had an awful bereavement and all of my colleagues and clients reached out, sent cards, flowers, reps to the funeral, every single one except the brits.
And then they went on to make it so awkward when I was next in front of them. Not making eye contact, making reference to “my time off” (a week, my choice). And other strange behaviour.

Don’t send a card op. You’ve been told not to. It will upset the colleague and get you into trouble

OP my family are Irish, there's nothing so wonderful as the caring nature of the Irish towards people who have suffered any calamity. I think the attitude of the manager is very odd but very English and it's the kind of attitude that leads to loneliness and isolation. Definitely cultural.
I've moved to a small town, my DH rescued a woman about to run out on a busy road, she was known to everyone, we discovered, mental health difficulties, husband exhausted from looking after her alone. The response locally? 'Oh her, shuffle, phone the GP. Typical!

Yes agreed.

It's a major cultural difference and you might be right about the TL hiding behind "It
Isn't the done thing"

Let's face it. It's easier to go the British route than the Irish one.

When is it not appropriate to express sympathy for someone who is bereaved. I don't get it.

When the bereaved party has requested that it is not discussed at her workplace.
HTH

Another thing people are hiding behind is the fact that the colleague hasn't told anyone.

What this shows is a complete lack of vocabulary and custom when death occurs. It's a huge taboo in the UK. People here who see that as normal would start seeing it differently if they ever lived or worked in Ireland.

The result of the silence is people struggling on alone, feeling unsupported, feeling obliged to go back to work, continued absence requiring a medical cert. The lack of customary condolence practices, gestures, and language makes bereavement much more of an ordeal than it should be.

That's not something they can reequest though. People know now, they have already discussed it. Total privacy isn't a thing that's available to anyone.

To sympathise with your friend/colleague.

It clearly is very much a cultural thing. I would sympathise with my friend or colleague by expressing sympathy to them (as long as the bereavent was public knowledge). I expect they would be astonished and a bit baffled if I turned up to the funeral.

She’s been working so she’s had a chance to tell you. She’s not told you. She doesn’t want you to know. You might not like it but accept it. If she wanted you to know she’d have already told you. It’s not being told. It’s that it’s her private information that doesn’t want it to be disclosed to you. you’re not coming across as someone caring for her or empathetic

ps im not English
ps2. I’m not Irish