What can we as parents do to stop our sons turning into the men we read about on mumsnet daily?

[Watermelon46]

…….or to teach our daughters not to put up with any of this.

It seems (from posts on here) that so many children are living in toxic environments, with fathers who are man children who are used to their own way and throw their toys out of the pram if they don’t get it, and mothers who appear trapped in this environment.

I see and hear elements of this behaviour from grown men regularly with my friends and my own family, including ourselves, so know it’s not just made up on here.

What can we do to break this cycle?

The men I know bear no resemblance to posts on here. The women I know would not put up with the behaviour that I read about on here. To be honest I think most of it us made up.

You only need to look at DV stats to know that is not true
Abuse in all forms is widespread.

I think the most important thing is to teach boys about emotions. Allow them to cry and express their sadness etc. I know so many men that are just emotionally stunted because a boy crying is seen as a sissy.

We openly talk with our DC about how women have been mistreated in the past, and how it still goes on today.
They know that they are to treat every person, regardless of gender, with kindness. We regularly ask them "what is the kind thing to do?" When they're unsure about a situation.
Also me and DH share all domestic chores, but without making it a big deal, we just do.
We make sure they know that they can leave any situation that makes them uncomfortable, and that they deserve the same kind of respect they give to others.
When me and DH argue, we make sure to let the DC know that it's completely normal to disagree with someone, and the way to resolve it is to talk to the other party (we are working on this instead of shouting) they also see us apologise and make up. We apologise to them when we've been wrong about something towards them.

I hope all these things are enough to bring up decent hunan beings. I had a turbulent childhood and it has taken many years for me to learn these things myself, so hopefully our DC will be balanced adults who know that in a partnership they have to be an active member, not just a bystander.
I am aware that all this is possible because I have a supportive DH who isn't a man child, and I really don't know how some of my friends cope with their SO.

Set a good example. Children grow up thinking what they see is normal. If that's two parents who are kind and respectful, who have balanced relationship, who both pull their weight then that's what they think is the normal way to behave. If they grow up with a feckless, useless father and a mother who just tolerates it that's what they think is normal.

Look inward, make sure what they're seeing at home is what you'd like them to grow up thinking is the way to behave.

Lead by example. Work hard, enjoy life, have a relationship based on equality, love and respect.

I don’t know what the answers are.

I have an only child, a dd, and I have always emphasised the importance of being financially independent.

That everyone in a household bears responsibility for keeping it running, even though chores are boring. No one person should have to pick up or clean up after another.

Maybe I'm too pessimistic but nothing.

I had an exbf that had (what seemed to me) to be a great woman and an on the ball mum. She was a strong woman, a feminist and talked a lot about women's issues. She was strict, yet also kind and respectful. Not saying she was perfect but she did everything "right" in this respect. She was so proud of her sons who she thought were great men. Well she would have been horrified to know her son cheated, saw prostitutes, and was a porn addict who watched horrible violent porn for hours daily.

From the beginning, stop with the stupid gender stereotypes and roles.
Teach them that girls are equal in all respects, no such thing as women's work and man's work.
Teach them about consent and self respect.
Teach them to be kind, to also respect animals and their environment instead of designer kit and worshipping money and celebrity.
I've got 2 young men, ones a nurse, my DD is an engineer. All of them are polite, gentle considerate people.

Respect that works both ways from the get go. Many people are quite disrespectful to babies and toddlers rather than treating them with dignity and encouraging autonomy.
Emotional intelligence- help children of both sexes to name their emotions, to learn how to regulate them appropriately. That’s it’s okay to express emotions, but as they grow there are appropriate ways and inappropriate as well.
Point out toxic masculinity as well as unfair sexism or inherent sexism like girls being valued for their looks versus boys for their abilities. Challenge these when you encounter them. Discuss sex and how both sexes are capable of enjoying different things as children like football, playing with dolls, dressing up etc. Don’t support sexist stereotypes.
Communicate as a couple of you are together as parents- even if not together. Help boys see communication in action.

YANBU to be thinking about this. It’s something I consider as a mother to a son.
Obviously at times it might be an uphill battle because you’re fighting against a society that is very permissive of bad behaviour from men and boys, but it’s worth doing. And also we have to keep in mind that men are ultimately responsible for themselves (too many are keen to point either at women for putting up with it or the man’s mother for somehow not doing enough).

My son is only two and a half, but I think it’s never too early to be thinking about how things affect your child. One of my big things is I don’t do everything for him. I’ve known too many guys who are just too used to and too comfortable with a woman doing everything for them.

Basically, responsibility and empathy are big areas I think I’d like to stress to my son. Also not segregating toys or colours into gendered nonsense, I think that just cements the idea of girls being “other”, on top of it being made up bullshit anyway.

I realise this probably makes me sound like a rather un-fun mum who overthinks stuff, but really it just boils down to making sure I’m talking to my boy about feelings and teaching him to clean up after himself and buying him a range of clothes and toys.

I think parents can say and do a lot with their sons but if they are not living what they are preaching then it wont work. Eg teach your sons about equality but if mum is working doing all the mental load all child caring and all house chores while the dad just works, they are still getting the fundamental message that men are to be served by women. In that situation I can only think that leaving will work ie show your sons that women wont put up with being treated like shit

We get a slanted view of men on here as is generally women that have been badly treated. However, works both ways as well.

My son who is 21, recently broke up with his girlfriend of 3 years. He was struggling but since the split he has been like a new lad. She turns out to have been extremely controlling and some of the things she demanded were just incredible (I've seen the texts since). So how do we breed these lunatic women! Her parents are nice and not some nutters on the outside either. He is also strong and in a professional job!

My DS has special needs but I'm optimistic that he will live a relatively normal independent adult life and I hope that means happy relationships if that's what he wants.

He's 5 years old. We talk about emotions and bug feelings. He shows a lot of empathy. I encourage independence- cooking skills, taking his dirty dishes to the kitchen (will get him washing up in a few years, he has gross motor skill difficulties). I left my ex who was abusive and a man child when DS was 2. He has my DP as a good role model of someone who works hard but pulls their weight.

We see in the graduates entering our workplace that in gen z, toxic masculinity outnumbers the woke crowd.
All the pp comments above re men showing emotion is valid.
More to the point, keep it up during their teens. For DC of whatever gender. Have conversations about toxic masculinity and what kind of men do they want to see/be. Have the awkward conversations about porn and consent.
Not easy but very necessary.

Boys model after their Dad so it's vital he is involved in all household chores and childminding. None of this: l don't change nappies or l don't cook!! Just both of you live your life as you want them to live theirs. Don't overstress about it just have that as the environment in the home

Let's be honest, the best way by far is to lead by example.

Be the people you want your child to grow up to be.

You reinforce that with your words over the years but if what you say and what you do aren't the same then you're wasting your time.

Britain has an adult-centric 'dinosaur' culture, which is not conducive to good mental health in childhood and beyond. Therein lies are large part of the problem of why many boys and girls grow up poisoned by the patriarchal system.

Not as much as we'd like to think IMO.

I'd love to say we had a huge impact on our kids but parenting doesn't have a fixed, measurable outcome and sadly there's no formula. It's mostly pot luck. That they've turned out so well is partially down to our values but the credit is mostly theirs as they are ultimately responsible for their behaviour, morals and values. As we all are as adults.

I think modelling behaviour is so important. Especially from other men in their lives. Consistent good examples and pulling them up when needed (even when life is easier to ignore it) is key.

I also think one of the things that’s helped massively with my kids is that DH isn’t too proud to apologise when he gets things wrong. I know so many guys who won’t ever apologise, a few women too.

DH has also been brutally honest with our DS’s about porn and how unrealistic it is.

I agree about leading by example.

Also if you live in an area with a misogynistic MP, vote them out next General Election. Such as Christopher Chope (who objected to a law banning up skirting) or Boris Johnson (long list of his personal ill-treatment of women).

Hold them accountable. Give them chores. Don't baby them or act like it's not their job to do household tasks.

exDP's mum is exactly the opposite of the above. If I text him to tell him to do something on his day with DCs (homework etc), she will text me back to clarify what she needs to do.

Guess why he's an ex.

My son is only 4. Things I do include:

• Model kindness and try to do the right thing. Be a good role model.

-Dh and I model a healthy relationship.

• ds treated with warmth and love but also has boundaries / consequences
• ds has responsibilities so even from an early age it's ingrained. He helps strip his own bed on a Friday, helps tidy his toys and puts his own washing in the basket.