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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to complaint to the police.

216 replies

NurseInTraining · 29/09/2022 20:53

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

OP posts:
MolliciousIntent · 29/09/2022 20:54

Absolutely complain, the way they treated you was abhorrent.

WallaceinAnderland · 29/09/2022 20:55

Yes you should complain. You needed medical attention, not handcuffs.

townofhull · 29/09/2022 20:59

yes you should complain. Did you know they were going to section you once you came outside? I feel that they tricked you and really that’s not on at all

Audioslaw · 29/09/2022 21:06

Hi OP, this is completely standard practice in the situation you describe. You had cut yourself, you need something sharp to cut yourself. You may still have had the something sharp on you.

The officer secured your hands away so that you couldn't use a potential sharp thing to harm yourself, the officer or anybody else near by.

Sorry you are feeling unwell, I hope you feel better soon and were offered the support that you needed.

ipreferthecat · 29/09/2022 21:09

I don't think they are encouraged to handcuff to the front since the officer got murdered in Croydon

Original poster
NurseInTraining · 29/09/2022 21:10

townofhull · 29/09/2022 20:59

yes you should complain. Did you know they were going to section you once you came outside? I feel that they tricked you and really that’s not on at all

No, I didn't. He didn't give me any opportunity to go with them willingly either. I know the Mental Health Act well (due to being a student nurse) and under normal circumstances it would have occurred that he wanted me outside purely to S136 me but I wasn't thinking straight.

To be fair to the other police officers, they were brilliant, they kept me entertained for hours, went out of their way to push for me to be seen quickly by the mental health team, were really empathetic and drove like crazy to get me home in time for a online counselling appointment. They even split up so one of them could go to the pharmacy and pick up antibiotics for me and still get me home in time for my appointment.

I have been handcuffed once previously. On that occasion they handcuffed my hands in front of me. It was because they wanted to search me (fair enough) but the police officer explained what he was doing to do before and during and it didn't hurt. This last time I had black bruises around both wrists afterwards.

OP posts:
Original poster
NurseInTraining · 29/09/2022 21:14

Sorry to drip feed but they left the handcuffs on until they got to the hospital (I was in the back of the police van so was rolling around probably didn't help the pain.) They didn't search me at any point so I don't think it was purely for safety as they removed the handcuffs without checking if I had a weapon on me which I think they would have done if they had any safety concerns.

OP posts:
Joelijane · 29/09/2022 21:22

I'm utterly shocked 32% say your being unreasonable, christ almighty. The recent expose of abuse in mental health hospital says it all, people don't care enough and something systemically needs to change. Take a look at the movement 'A Disorder 4 Everyone' I think you might like their take on things. Go easy love x

purpleme12 · 29/09/2022 21:23

Well it sounds really traumatic to me

weekendninja · 29/09/2022 21:40

I hope you're feeling better OP. It sounds like it was a traumatic time for you.

As for the handcuffing, police need to justify and document use of force. Without knowing the full circumstances I would imagine the the officers were doing this for the safety of both you and them as you had used something sharp to cut your wrists. Handcuffing to the rear is best practice due to your restricted movement as if you are handcuffed to the front you have more movement and the ability to reach for objects on you (that may have been missed in a search) or nearby.

You know yourself that you wouldn't cause harm - they do not.

Can you contact your local force and ask to speak to the officer/their sargent to get further information on their decision making? You can also ask about what mental health training they have received.

EmergencyPoncho · 29/09/2022 21:42

That sounds horrific, I'm so sorry.

OneTC · 29/09/2022 21:45

100% complain.

The police make many interventions under the mental health act and need to stick to and have a best practice at all times. Even if your complaint amounts to no more than feedback and maybe some local training as a resolution then it's worth doing

Quitelikeit · 29/09/2022 21:47

this is not good - so the officer lacked empathy and compassion and you felt he was very rough, some of the officers apologised to you for his actions

were they wearing cameras?

how did you have bruising all around you wrist? Are you saying he was pulling you around by the handcuffs whilst you were wearing them - otherwise could you have caused the bruising by trying to hurt your hands whilst in the van?

Quitelikeit · 29/09/2022 21:49

It would be unlikely he severed your tendon - maybe something sharp would do that but not blunt like cuffs as the tendon is flexible

ShowOfHands · 29/09/2022 21:49

Ask to speak to their professional standards department with a view to them finding out why - via investigation - the officer acted in this way and go from there.

I think they shouldn't be asking people to step out of their homes in order to 136 as it's not in the spirit of the law so there is a case to answer if it's as you describe.

TabithaTittlemouse · 29/09/2022 21:51

I would ask them to look into it, ask for a debrief. Hopefully it will help you to make sense of what happened as well as highlighting any mistakes that may have been made.

Sorry that this happened to you. I hope that you in a better place.

demotedreally · 29/09/2022 21:52

I'm not clear why this was a police matter? Didn't you need medical attention?

Clarice99 · 29/09/2022 21:53

That sounds really traumatic, and based on your account, I think you should complain.

I hope that you're feeling better now, more stable, and that you can access relevant support.

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 29/09/2022 21:55

He sounds like he just barged in without establishing basic facts. Why were they even there surely you needed an ambulance? At a guess, whoever called them at the crisis team dramatized what they said to cause his reaction. I’d be surprised if there is an accurate record though. The records tend to get fudged a bit when they know they didn’t do things perfectly and it becomes your word against theirs.

Original poster
NurseInTraining · 29/09/2022 22:15

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 29/09/2022 21:55

He sounds like he just barged in without establishing basic facts. Why were they even there surely you needed an ambulance? At a guess, whoever called them at the crisis team dramatized what they said to cause his reaction. I’d be surprised if there is an accurate record though. The records tend to get fudged a bit when they know they didn’t do things perfectly and it becomes your word against theirs.

You can wait for 12 hours even when medically unwell for an ambulance in my area at the moment so they are plugging the gap with police at the moment. It is fairly standard around here at the moment as the police can often get there and keep you safe and give first aid until an ambulance is free.
If it is an emergency the ambulance service are brilliant though, I recently cut my radial artery and had an ambulance plus two doctors at my house so quick. I lost a lot of blood and was dying but they saved my life.

OP posts:
Original poster
NurseInTraining · 29/09/2022 22:25

Quitelikeit · 29/09/2022 21:47

this is not good - so the officer lacked empathy and compassion and you felt he was very rough, some of the officers apologised to you for his actions

were they wearing cameras?

how did you have bruising all around you wrist? Are you saying he was pulling you around by the handcuffs whilst you were wearing them - otherwise could you have caused the bruising by trying to hurt your hands whilst in the van?

Being handcuffed behind your back is very painful even without any injury (or at least it was for me).
He wasn't pulling me around but equally pushed me onto the floor in the van and I wasn't able to get onto the bench which meant I was unable to sit properly during the trip to the hospital (about 15 minutes).

OP posts:
TooHotToRamble · 29/09/2022 22:33

That's absolutely horrendous. Definitely complain.

KrisAkabusi · 29/09/2022 22:40

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I'm sure all this was very traumatic. But my reading of this is that you self-harmed by cutting your wrists. You said the handcuffs didn't help, not that they caused the cuts that needed stitches. So surely any tendon damage was caused by you, not by handcuffs? Or am I getting this wrong?

Original poster
NurseInTraining · 29/09/2022 22:52

KrisAkabusi · 29/09/2022 22:40

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I'm sure all this was very traumatic. But my reading of this is that you self-harmed by cutting your wrists. You said the handcuffs didn't help, not that they caused the cuts that needed stitches. So surely any tendon damage was caused by you, not by handcuffs? Or am I getting this wrong?

I don't know to be honest. I'm not saying that they caused the tendon damage but my support worker suggested that it might be worth considering. To be honest, I am struggling so much with what happened that I don't know what to think.

I find the worst part is not understanding why they did what they did.
When I cut my artery I was rushed to resus and into emergency surgery and I am struggling with not knowing how to deal with this so I have requested my medical records to try and understand this further. As a student nurse I can understand medical records and I feel like knowing what happened medically will help deal with the confusion I feel about it.

I feel like I need to do something similar with the police so I can understand why he did what he did that night. Even if it comes out that he followed procedure then I think I need to understand and challenge that.

Thanks for all the replies. Talking about this is helping me make sense of what happened that night and that is really beneficial to me.

OP posts:
Anonnamechange222 · 29/09/2022 23:14

Hi @NurseInTraining
sounds awful and like it was unnecessary. You would be well within your rights to complain however from experience I would say make the complaint without much hope of anything happening….
I had a situation in the past where we made a complaint against the police and it took over a year to resolve (they owed us £££ for damage they caused as well as the physical and emotional trauma) they have a whole department of lawyers that are dedicated to getting to helping them worm out of situations where they are in the wrong. We had some free legal advice at the time and one thing he said that really stuck with me was ‘just because something is immoral or wrong it doesn’t mean it’s illegal’…. He advised that it would be very costly for us to bring charges against the officers involved and not worth it. We eventually got them to pay for some of the damage and publish a (tiny) apology in the loca newspaper but only if we signed documents saying we wouldn’t ever pursue the matter again or go to the press - emotionally it was a very difficult process to go through and nothing at all happened to the officers involved.