AIBU to complaint to the police.

[NurseInTraining]

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

You were having a mental health crisis. An emergency. They needed to get you to safety asap. Neutralised. Not to have a friendly chat on the doorstep, frisk you down, then invite you into the car for a lift to the hospital.

Crisis team called an ambulance as you had cut your wrists......obviously bad enough to require an ambulance if you needed stitches and had tendon damage. De-escalation techniques can help with calming you down, causing further harm to yourself but they can't help with your injuries as a result of that harm.

And no sorry, you shouldn't complain

Op

youve hard a hard time on here but you will get a variety of perspectives.

I am sorry that you are struggling.

unfortunately some people are resentful of the police resources being used in the way you describe

I have to agree with others on one thing though - please do be careful - you could easily be declared unfit to practice if your self harming persists to the dangerous extent you have described. If you can’t help yourself how can you help others?

maybe you will he diverted onto a different course in your last year. They obviously haven’t made a decision yet but that day will come and they have a responsibility to the profession to make sure those who are admitted into it are safe to practice.

good luck

Some of the best nurses I know have their own mental health issues, so this absolutely shouldn’t preclude you from training. However, some advice from an old fart who’s been in the business for over thirty years, you admit that you’ve only done the theory so far and you talk about the importance of reflection. Perhaps a good reflection for you is the difference between theory and reality and reflecting on what you can learn from understanding other perspectives.

A curse of trainee nurses can be the assumption that your knowledge is superior to other peoples, it’s not, it’s different and if you want to be a good nurse you need to be open to all perspectives. If you aren’t you won’t provide effective support for your patients or colleagues (in all different sectors).

I think you make a good point but honestly (and I hate to sound like I am bragging because that makes me so uncomfortable) but I am really good at what I do and I have had only positive feedback on placement. I was recently on placement on a mental health assessment ward where I was a patient a long time ago and I believe I can understand patients in a way that some people can't. Patients seem to trust me.
I am currently jumping through hoops to be declared fit to practice and I understand why that is but I passionately believe that my mental health difficulties make me a better nurse.

You have no grounds for complaint here. You’re upset because you didn’t get the fluffy treatment you’ve come to think you deserve.

The police are trained to fight crime, they don’t want to be the first line in someone having a MH crisis unless they’re at immediately risk of suicide. It doesn’t sound like the officer was unprofessional in any way, just that he wasn’t as empathetic as you want. The other officers might have been nicer, but that’s not any slight on the other one.

S136 is one of the only tools they have to quickly deal with you. I’m sure the public wouldn’t want police spending hours trying to convince you to seek help when they can detain you and get you to hospital there and then. Supervision would agree with this too. There are calls going uncovered due to a lack of resources, incredibly dangerous situations all the time.

A compliant won’t lead to a “reflective essay” as you might suggest. Police live in the real world and change comes from major incidents, not MH detainees who don’t like being handcuffed writing a complaint.

Hi, I haven't done only theory. I have done four placements and every year we spend 50 of our time on clinical placement as per NMC regulations but I really appreciate the feedback. I personally feel that I learn the most from other practitioners.

Aah I misunderstood your comment about doing theory right now and going on placement later and thought you were on one of the courses which has had to change the pattern of the curriculum because of issues with placements.

Another piece of feedback if you want it is that the tone of your communication on here (unsure if it reflects real life) is going to get people’s backs up. You have been quite confrontational with people and dismissive of different perspectives, which I know is hard not to do when you feel like you’re being attacked or criticised but as you know this is going to happen in your line of work. If you dig in to defend your perspective you won’t be able to engage with people and your work will be less effective.

The officers should have had body worn cameras on so if you complain that will be reviewed as part of the complaint.

I would say to complain- not so much for the handcuffing as like others have said this would be for your and their safety. Tho they have to use a reasonable amount of force so depending on your behaviour at the time, they would need to justify that.

But tricking you outside so they can 136 you is bad practise and not allowed. There are other ways to deal if someone is in there own home.

It's normal for detainees to be handcuffed.

Had the OP secreted a blade and continued to harm in transit, the same second guessing chairborne experts would be slagging the police off.

Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.

Experts who have never done anything like it yet somehow know all about it.

Hi fair point. I am less confrontational in real life. I have been quite defensive (I'm not in real life at all) but it is difficult when some people seem to be making me out to be some kind of monster.

I would complain. They sound like they were too heavy handed with someone who needed medical attention.

However, if you self harm to the point that you need stitches, you are more likely to have caused your tendon damage etc than the police are.

OP - would you have rather had an ambulance?

Although reading your replies to people and seeing your argumentative tone, I don’t blame the police officer for ensuring their own safety.

I won’t comment on a person with your health troubles becoming a mental health nurse, as I think we all have our own opinion on the appropriateness, and that’s not the point of the thread

I'm not surprised he cuffed you.
If you had half as much attitude with him as you have on this thread, then I don't blame you.
I also don't understand why a great deal of mental health nurses have issues themselves, surely being surrounded by people in crisis isn't good for you, it's normalising abnormal behaviour.
But that's another thread.

I can’t believe 48% think handcuffing you was an appropriate response.
Unless you were wielding a knife and acting in an aggressive or threatening manner, which it doesn’t appear you were.

I think it’s absolutely shocking and would 100% complain. That’s an inappropriate response to someone who has harmed themselves and is unarmed and requesting help.

(The police didn’t seem so heavy handed with the individual who stamped on a hotel receptionists head and body and punched a female police officer in the face and then licked the blood off his boot!)
The mental health response in this country is absolutely dire, well documented to be utterly shit, people just don’t understand it- which you can see from the shockingly uneducated responses on this thread.

I hope you get to practice again OP and I sincerely hope that you are able to access the help you need. Good luck for your future 💐I hope it’s a bright one.

I’d be wary asking on here op. These people are not experts and a lot of the comments I’ve read have no idea what they’re talking about, mostly spouting rubbish you read on social media written by other people who don’t know what they’re talking about. Also forces are all different.

speak to your support and advocacy team, they know what they’re talking about. Is there a victim care service?

the way complaints are handled here in our force are very ‘you’-focussed so they will advise whether you have grounds and speak to you about it with no judgement. They also have places they can refer you to for support with the complaint. I’d like to think they’re all the same.

The police can't win. Under funded and understaffed and a massive amount of resources taken up my mental health issues. Police officers stretched beyond what is safe.

meh. I used to have a lot of time for the police but the more i read things like this, the worse they seem. 1 out of several police acted like a bit of a twat (how about putting her carefully on the bench? in any case are we to understand the police drive around with people just bouncing around the back of a van? WTF?) etc etc. Sure they're stretched, we all are. Acting like a dick is optional.

OP, in your shoes i would make a factual complaint but not expect anything at all to happen or to change. But at least you will have done it.

I started writing, had a call then came back and the thread had moved on. eek.
You weren't ignored, you weren't beaten, you didn't have someone kneeling on your neck whilst you begged you couldn't breathe until you died.This is a very low bloody bar though. None of this should ever happen, i don't care how stressed and stretched the police are. (i mean - i do care deeply that they are stressed and stretched, but that these actions shouldn't be the result of that)You were swiftly detained, taken to hospital for care and accompanied until completion.That is true. Where i have questions is the OPs assertion that she was chucked in a van, and was rolling on the floor. Being "tricked out of the house" is neither here nor there, they have to act fast. But if OP feels that she was roughly cuffed, or whatever, it is worth making the complaint so that the police can look for themselves and assure themselves they acted correctly. (although i see from pp they apparently don't have time for this)

Officers aren't permitted to transport anyone in the front handcuff position unless its from one safe place to another, such as a custody cell to a different custody cell. I won't link it but there's a video on YouTube of what happened to a female officer who gave someone benefit of the doubt and stayed with them in front cuffs( very violent ). Its really hard to know without being aware of the particular officers experiences, skill set and definitely information he had why he made the choice to respond how he did but it could be worth asking if you could be informed of these details as only you can then decide whether or not it was too much or not. All use of force should be recorded on a form with a really thorough justification and submitted so it isn't just a case of what someone feels like doing, it has to be considered and justified. Do you know who reported it from the crisis team? What had they told the police about you or what it was they were attending? Also might be worth finding out why you were taken in a van as opposed to a car. Hopefully this helps!

Just a an aside today we had an email from our chief constable stating only 17% of what we are going to is for crime ! 83% is mental health issues or other non crime related incidents.

This is a very low bloody bar though.

Did my whole post not go on to say how that isn't the level for standard or similar? I'm sure I made that point, if not it was supposed to be my very next sentence.

Yes, if you read the whole post:

You weren't ignored, you weren't beaten, you didn't have someone kneeling on your neck whilst you begged you couldn't breathe until you died.

You were swiftly detained, taken to hospital for care and accompanied until completion.

Sounds like you were lucky.

This is not the minimum level of standard, but how are the police or yourself to know if you would have went willingly. You weren't acting rationally.

You're only being unreasonable for thinking the police would help.