AIBU to complaint to the police.

[NurseInTraining]

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

I have been critical of some police actions on these threads but, reading this, I actually feel quite sorry for them and for victims of crime who are left waiting whilst 4 police officers are sat in a&e, entertaining mental health patients for hours and then ferrying them around for meds and appointments.
Mental health problems are awful. I suffer from them and have cut myself in the past so I sympathise, but what a waste of time and resources.

From the op :-

"To be fair to the other police officers, they were brilliant, they kept me entertained for hours, went out of their way to push for me to be seen quickly by the mental health team, were really empathetic and drove like crazy to get me home in time for a online counselling appointment. They even split up so one of them could go to the pharmacy and pick up antibiotics for me and still get me home in time for my appointment. "

And this is exactly why we can't to get to actual crimes that are happening or have happened.
We are the entertainment for people like the op . Their taxi. Their pharmacy.

This is the crux of the issue and then - people like the op actually want to complain that the police out the nasty handcuffs on when they had obviously used a blade deep enough to cause nerve damage and require stitches.

I think the op is right . I need another job . This is why . Because I can't do MY job for this type of incident. Expertly explained by the op . And when that complaint goes in for that officer trying to get the help the op needed they'll get suspended or put on restricted duties so that's another police officer of the shift who can't attend actual crimes .

Unfortunately it isn't up to patients to ask them to leave - I have done so but, in my area at least, legally they have to stay. I didn't ask them to do so but they have to be there. If you have to have someone observing you 24/7 then it helps for them to be able to show empathy, kindness and humour. If a male takes you to the toilet then you at least want them to be able to laugh about it.
When I am in that situation then I quickly calm down and want to be left alone but I can't make that happen. Equally I can't control things during the specific situations that a crisis happens (this doesn't happen when I am working).
90% of police are brilliant - they spend time unwillingly with me but treat me like a human and we can just have random chats - I have literally helped officers chose their next car before as I am stuck with them for hours.
I don't want to be a drain on resources but can't make my mental health problems go away. I also think that if my supervisor and the head of professional standards is happy with me studying then some random from Mumsnet can probably be ignored.

How did you cut your artery? Was that an accident or another mh crisis?
And yes you are being unreasonable. If you don't want help don't call people for help.

I don't want to be a drain on resources but can't make my mental health problems go away.

I understand. I have had mental health problems for over 25 years. But you're a well informed professional in the area of mental health, including procedures and the law. When you contacted the local crisis team, you must have had an idea what would happen next because you've been in this position several times. If you don't need the police to be with you, why do you not take yourself to hospital and get checked over without involving the police?
Again, I sympathise that MH care is poor and underfunded but it's not what the police are for. There are unfortunate situations where they need to be involved, such as in cases of violence to others, or maybe where they need to break in to rescue someone who needs resus, as you have previously done. But if there are times when you can sort yourself out without involving the police, surely that will make you feel empowered over your illness?

I don't think you have the empathy you think you do. It sounds like you only have sympathy for people with mental illness because it validates your own. You don't seem to have any awareness or compassion for the other people affected by it. You talk so disrespectfully to people who are negatively affected by others with mental illness. Another professional reveals a distressing example of having to deal with a murder caused by a mentally ill member of the public, and your response is "Maybe time to get a new job love." That is horrible. You have a serious lack of awareness or understanding of anyone beyond yourself.

Remember this in your future career when your patient puts in a complaint about you. It happens to most nurses at some point. I'm sure you'll say you were just trying your best under the circumstances too.

I agree with this unfortunately :(

I am an ex police despatcher. Sometimes, so many calls were about this sort of thing. Nobody around to help other than the police. The aforementioned dicking around was commonplace. Police can section someone if they're deemed to be a danger to themselves and they did-it fast tracked you. The number of units the force I worked for had on, in comparison to how many emergencies, non-emergencies but fairly urgent incidents, and overall how many people they were serving was truly shocking. Those two officers would have been in trouble if they hung about longer than they had to, not to mention all the other things going on (some of them involving people being in grave danger in other circumstances) that could have been neglected as a result.

MH care is abhorrent in this country, and so much more of it falls to the police than should. They do their best IME, I wish there were systems in place that meant they didn't have to work the way they do though, and I am sorry for what happened to you. It sounds as if overall it was a positive experience with the police for you, I wouldn't complain 1) because nothing will come of it and 2) because it sounds as if overall they looked after you extremely well.

I hope your MH improves :)

I agree 75%. But three out of four police apologised and said it was heavy handed. I don't want him to get in trouble but I also think that he could benefit from support to improve his practice. In student nursing (ignoring those that don't believe I deserve to be a student nurse) we are constantly writing essays about reflective practice and how to improve practice and I assume policing is the similar.
This PC didn't stick around and had nothing to do with me being seen quickly. If I hadn't been detained on a S136 then I would have been seen and released quicker because in my area I would have only needed to see a mental health nurse from the crisis team rather than them finding a psychiatrist and social worker who I didn't know. It generally takes several hours to contact a social worker and psychiatrist even without the complication of finding someone I don't know compared with the nurse from the crisis team just coming downstairs if I wasn't on a S136.

But you need more than a quick visit from a mental health nurse. You have repeatedly slit your wrists and called for help. Then you want them to just drop you at the hospital and leave you alone? Treat you quickly and let you go?

It sounds like you want s taxi service. You just want them to collect you and drop you off and then to get stitches sorted and sent off home.

That's not how it should work. It's a good thing they got you a social worker and longer term support.

They gave you exactly what you needed. You are not in the correct state of mind to decide that all you needed was for them to drop you off at hospital. If that's what you want then stop calling for help and just call a taxi.

Op

We don't have TIME for "reflective practice ". You go from one job to the next . After yku that officer may have been blue lighting to a domestic assault , a robbery, and assault or another suicidal person .

You really need to stop looking for someone to blame and look at how you can improve your own circumstances. This blame game is ridiculous. You cut your own wrists deep enough to need stitches and cause nerve damage . What exactly do you want ? You're actions caused this . Not the poor sod who happened to be free when the ambulance call came in to police .

Try taking some responsibility? Instead of seeking to blame others - is it a distraction from your own issues ? You need to do you . Stop looking to blame those who helped you .

And no - it's not heavy handled to cuff someone with a bladed weapon .

That officer doesn't know you from Adam . The 3 chivvying yku along and as you put it "entertaining " you built a rapport and probably got to know you a little better- but cuffing you was not wrong - it is a dynamic risk assessment based on what's presented- and what was presented was a person with a bladed weapon whose cut their wrists . What do you not understand? They didn't know you or know if you were a risk to them or not - how could they know that ?

At no point have I suggested that I am not taking responsibility. You have commented repeatedly and seem to have a personal vendetta against me.

1. I am working hard to improve my situation.
2. I am literally training to work in a job that will allow me to help others in my situation.
3. I am purely asking about feedback for this specific situation.

You have registered your feedback multiple times. Thanks for that but you are literally commenting repeatedly and we have all heard your opinion. Thank you but maybe your interest in this post is unhealthy.
Thanks for your comments but I think that is enough now. I am still open to other peoples opinions and I am capable to balancing one view per poster.

You're not though. You're only accepting views which agree with your own and support you making a complain. Anyone who disagrees with that and tells you that they got you the help you needed is ignored or spoken to very rudely by you.

They did what they had to do for their own safety and for yours. They did what they had to do to get you in there quickly. You cant slit your wrists, call for help and then say, "I'm fine now, you can leave."

You need help. Engage with the help. Dont complain that you had to stay there and wait for social workers etc. That's exactly what you need.

No op - when you post on a PUBLIC forum inviting opinions you don't get to censor those opinions or tell anyone who is actually doing the job you're complaining about they can't comment further !

I have absolutely no vendetta against you - I don't know you - and that is the entire point of my replies to your complaining abkut the police !

I do not know you . All I do know is you cut your wrists so deeply as to require stitches and cause nerve damage- and on that information alone I'm saying that your complaint against the police is wholly unfounded because faced with a potential suicidal person with a weapon any police officer in their right mind would have cuffed you !

You cannot seriously be saying they shouldn't when you had a weapon that you had already used to cause self harm !

My opinion might not be welcomed by you but when you listed on an open public forum I'm afraid you lost the right to dictate who can and can't agree or reply .

You might not like what I'm saying but that's not going to stop me saying it .

You were a potential threat to any person attending you're address at that point and that's why the police were required. They did their job .
When you're doing yours feel free to come back to me and comment .

You have not dealt with violent mental health patients yet clearly ! Well the polic will have and taking no chances is absolutely nothing to complain about.

The police are people just like you who want to go home to their families at the end of their shift. Why should they risk being slashed with a blade ? They do t know you or what you are capable of doing g with the blade you have already used .

Don't know what you read but I haven't had any "quick" visits from a mental health nurse in the last decade of struggling and I certainly don't have a social worker.
I never said I want a taxi service but I am also advised to contact crisis when I am struggling. In future I will ignore official advice and follow your advice which seems to be to call a taxi. I am sure local taxi companies will appreciate this.

Hi, thanks for yet again commenting. Most of your points are answered in my posts so I will direct you to them.
Thanks.

This is what I'm talking about.

You're complaining because by detaining you, you had to wait for more in depth help. If they hadn't detained you then all you would need was a chat with the crisis team nurse. Instead, you had to wait for more in depth help.

That is what you need. Stop moaning. If you dont want the help, then get a taxi to the hospital, get your stitches and go home.

Don't know what you read but I haven't had any "quick" visits from a mental health nurse

You sort of did imply this when you wrote...

If I hadn't been detained on a S136 then I would have been seen and released quicker because in my area I would have only needed to see a mental health nurse from the crisis team

... but you probably just meant you didn't have to wait as long. Could you not just take yourself to the hospital to see the crisis team? Then you don't have to wait as long and you don't have to wait with police officers which you say is far from pleasant for you?

It's clear you're having serious mental health struggles so I'm not sure what's to be gained by keep having a go at you over making a complaint. I doubt police officers are big into self-reflection but if you think it would be helpful for him, why don't you write him a letter? Then it's up to him whether he takes your concerns on board or not.

Actually if this patient hadn't been 136 and had gone to a&e as well they know - they'd have been waiting longer . If on a 136 then a psychiatrist on call has to come out and see them.

If they just go to a&e they'd likely be waiting 8 hours for a nurse to triage then send them home with the crisis team number which op clearly already has .

But op isn't happy with whatever course of action is taken .

If they make a complaint it will be looked into but to be honest no one is going to discipline a police officer for cuffing someone whose just used a bladed weapon to slash their own wrists . Officer safety is paramount and that officer did what they thought would keep them , the patient and everyone else safe . They aren't going to get disciplined for that .
But while the complaint is investigated they'll likely be taken off front line duties and so out more pressure on their already overstretched colleagues. But hey ho . As long as the op feels validated.

Hey, as I say, I would have gone to the hospital willingly but wasn't given that option. I called crisis for support - that doesn't necessarily mean they call the police as different nurses in the crisis team will deal with it differently. Some can distract me and support me to get through the crisis however some will go straight to calling the police. It can be a bit of a lucky dip contacting them but it is still the official advice during any crisis if you don't have friends or family for support which I don't.
I think my post is confusing as I don't want him to get in to trouble but I would like him to consider other ways of dealing with the situation. De-escalation techniques are so important in mental health and I know I respond really quickly to them so maybe it could help him in general if he had the opportunity. I have recently spent time with police talking about the training they receive but I didn't think to ask what de-escalation techniques they learn and the other officers responses sort of led me towards thinking that he could improve his skills as they seem to manage it.

Op
If you've already cut your wrists then the police would be duty bound to take you to seek medical attention.

If you are a trainee mh nurse you MUST know that ?

They can't just desculate and leave you . That would be classed as a dereliction of duty - what if you then bled to death ?

You are not operating in the real world . You do clearly need more help here than has been given by mh services .

What follow up appointment has been made ?

But can't you see that you keep going on that they shouldn't complain, doesn't actually achieve anything. In fact, it's more likely to push them into complaining. I know it would me. You stated well-argued reasons why the officer did what they did and why the op shouldn't complain. Keep repeating your point comes across as a bit browbeating, to be honest. And I say that as someone who is is sympathetic with the position the police find themselves in and who agrees with your reasoning.