AIBU to complaint to the police.

[NurseInTraining]

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

And I'm sorry op but if you've cut yourself so deeply as to require stitches and caused nerve damage then the crisis team aren't going to simply talk you through it - you know that though. They have to get you medical attention. They are also duty bound . And the fact ambulances will not attend these incidents without police back up - you must know that too ?

Are you seriously studying to be a mental health nurse ? Because you must know this if you are - you will be required to do the same in future if a patient is self harming- you do realise that ?

You really need to stop looking for someone to blame and look at how you can improve your own circumstances. This blame game is ridiculous. You cut your own wrists deep enough to need stitches and cause nerve damage . What exactly do you want ? You're actions caused this . Not the poor sod who happened to be free when the ambulance call came in to police.

I agree with this, and yes, YABU. Surely you can understand that if police are called to someone who has cut their wrist they need to treat that person as if they are still armed, and possibly dangerous. I feel sorry for the police, they get it in the neck because they aren't responding to criminal incidents, and yet they are also expected to spend half their day talking to people with a MH crisis which shouldn't even be part of their job. You would do better to move past this and try to focus on your recovery.

There was nothing stopping you from going to the hospital first. You could have self presented and the crisis team could have seen you.

Part of the problem is that you want the theatre of it. All the attention from having someone sent out to talk you round is part of what you want. You respond quickly because you're craving the attention, once you get it, you feel better and then want everything dealt with quickly so you can get home.

He didnt give you that. He detained you because you were a danger, got you straight to a hospital, then he left you with other officers. No drama or attention or long, drawn out pandering to talk you round. Your angry with him because you didnt get the attention the way you wanted it. But you got the medical and mental health care you needed, quickly. And other police stayed with you and said what they felt you needed to hear to keep you calm.

Complaining about him should not be on your priority list right now.

Hey - they can complain all they like . The facts are the facts . Person with knife or blade = handcuffs and detained on mh grounds .

OK. But you, understandably and for good reason, don't think they should complain. You've explained why and given well thought out reasons. You can't do more,abd by keep going over the same grounds is more likely to be injurious to your cause.
Now, I'm doing a you and keep repeating myself! So I'll stop.

I hope you get better soon, op, and you can find a better way through the maze of reporting your self-harm than by keep getting detained by the police. I don't see how that is helping anyone, tbh.

Marshalmelrose

Good point well made

I think the police do a great job overall in very trying circumstances. They often can't win no matter what they do. But just know that you are appreciated. 🙂

Hi, thanks, the last few weeks have been tough as I had nearly twelve amazing months of my mental health being brilliant.
Then I had a few personal difficulties and things have gone a bit crazy.
Uni have been brilliant and seem to understand that a few difficult weeks doesn't undo twelve amazing months. I was up front at the start of the course about my mental health (I hadn't self harmed for twelve months before the last few weeks) and with every supervisor on every placement I have been on. I also can't hide it as despite tattoos it is obvious under scrubs. Before starting the course I declared that I self harmed to the course lead as I was concerned it would cause problems and was told that I might get some awkward questions but that this wouldn't hold me back.
Understandably there is supervision on my work currently - of course there is and I get that. I am currently waiting for NHS occupational health to assess me next week and decide whether I can continue training unrestricted.
I don't want to sound like I am bragging but I really good with patients, I understand them, I can explain things in a way they can understand and they seem to naturally trust me. I also have great clinical skills - in one year I have picked up on a patient who had developed sepsis - I was the first person to flag concerns during her routine physical observations and could well have saved her life.
Most of the mental health cohort have mental health problems so it seems like you would have no future mental health nurses without us.

This, and everything stillvicarinatutu has been saying. Along with an earlier poster, I can't remember.

OP clearly would have preferred immediate ambulance attention to save their life, as they praised the care they received that time.

However the urgent ambulance might have been saving the life of someone who had a heart attack. Or a baby who has stopped breathing in the night. Surely you can understand the need for these resources.

I say this as someone who has suffered with MH issues for decades. You can't be the ambulances priority in these cases, when someone who needs help for something that isn't self inflicted could die.

The police are struggling. This shouldn't fall to them, but it does. And they need to deal with it swiftly so they can also do their jobs with crimes that are committed.

YABU and you should not complain.

How would you like it if next time the police didn't show and left your crisis to unfold, unaided. (Not saying they would do this because of the complaint, just saying another scenario where you received no urgent attendance).

I'm doubting much of what you say given the way you enjoy sparring with people who don't agree with you. But I'll bite...your days as a student mental health nurse are clearly numbered. Should you even graduate very unlikely you would get a position at the end of it. Be grateful to the police. They don't need to be hanging around for this. To then want to make a complaint shows the person you are. Tricky. Very tricky.

Then I had a few personal difficulties and things have gone a bit crazy.

I've been dealing with MH issues for over
25 years and I totally get this. I never know what it will be that knocks me off my axis. But the fact that you managed to hold it together for so long, shows that you have the ability leave the patterns of behaviour behind you - even if you maybe, like me, find them weirdly comforting.
After being diagnosed, I changed career and had a very successful 20 years. There's no reason why you shouldn't be the same. Mental health issues make us do stupid things but it doesn't make us stupid people. We need good nurses so I wish you all the best.

Your MH support worker is not helping you by telling you to complain, they should be explaining why this happened and understanding of the police. We get nowhere if these services turn on each other.

If they actually suggested the cuffs caused tendon damage when you cut your own wrists they are doing a massive disservice and causing delusions. You damaged your own tendon. Whether that be by your cut (most likely) or the handcuffs over your cut, you initiated it.

Hi, thankfully the people who matter don't agree with you. As you will see in my OP I didn't think about complaining but this was raised by a mental health support worker and I was purely asking for what people think. I will pass your comments on to him. I am sure he will be hurt by your opinion. I asked for opinions nor personal attack based on how you perceive me. I think it is clear that I am currently vulnerable so hopefully you feel some sort of power from telling me my student nurse days are numbered. Are you a mental health nurse? Or do you work as a nursing lecturer? Otherwise your ability to judge me as a student mental health nurse will be ignored and I will continue asking for opinions based purely on whether I should complain or not as this is all I asked. I didn't say in the OP that I would complain - all you needed to say was "no, you didn't agree" and I would take opinion on board.

Sorry, I don’t think you should complain and you weren’t in a good place then either but it’s great you’re getting better now. I’d cease the discussion with your case worker as it sounds like they have their own agenda. Focus on you. Sadly mental health funding and staffing is so low and it’s the job of hospitals, not police, but police get called in. You don’t know what they were told or have encountered before, and their safety matters too.

My support worker isn't pushing it at all he just mentioned it. I foolishly thought that Mumsnet would help me make a decision - lesson learned.

They should not be manipulating the law. The use of 136 when you were at home is terrible. They should not have deliberately got you into the street in order to section you. They should have called an ambulance or git you to call a family member or friend to take you to a and e if your wrists needed attention. Complain.

i think they always handcuff behind - so that someone like you cannot get something out of their pocket and cut themselves, so that no one can stab or shoot them.

I don't think you'll get far wanting to change that habit.

Why didn't the crisis team call your mental health worker or ambulance.
Because only the police can be relied on to turn up I suppose.

I see you ignore comments that you can't try and make the poster sound unreasonable. Very good work.

If you complain, I hope the department see it for what it is.

The other police officers were clearly just trying to pacify you as you were probably spouting off about your knowledge etc. and they wanted to calm you down. It does not mean that they wouldn't have done the same with that officer's experience and situation.

My mental health support worker is uni based so he only works 9-5 Monday to Friday so can only support me during this time. He has contacted NHS repeatedly saying that I need extra support outside of these times. Crisis probably called ambulance but as I explained earlier there can be a 12 hour wait. Yeah, police have to turn up but that doesn't change the original question about whether their behaviour was right or not.

Until they all get complained about and put on suspension/desk duty pending investigation over following procedure over a disgruntled member of the public who got the care that was offered, instead of the care they wanted. Then who will be there?

Oh yeah, the ambulance, that the OP wanted, whilst other people lay with dying relatives needing CPR and other assistance. All those complaints about people dying, waiting for ambulances after a fall etc. and this is why!

If you wanted something specific, you weren't in crisis. In a crisis you can't think for yourself clearly and the team made the best call for you that they could.

I don't know about other regions but where I used to work, amb would have required police attendance anyway, and wouldn't have entered the property without a police presence (due to OP having a 'weapon'). They also wouldn't have been permitted to rely on someone else to take the OP to get medical attention (what if they said they would then didn't-police liable).

Also if OP didn't let ambulance staff in (even if she'd just fallen asleep) she'd be classed as in danger, so ambulance would need police (or fire service) to force entry. In other words, ambulance staff being present could have resulted in the exact same outcome.

Hey to confirm, I am not thinking about what I want or need during a crisis. I'm simply not well enough make that decision. I'm not arguing whether or not the police arriving is the right decision - ideal world all responses would be made by mental health staff but we don't live in an ideal world.
I am simply asking whether I should complain about the behaviour described or not. That's it. You might have views about me as a person but I don't need to hear about how bad a person I am. Please stick to my question about complaining or not.

No wonder actual crimes aren’t being investigated anymore!

I would definitely take this further. Its does sound heavy handed especially if you had the intention and gave every indication of complying. I would request details on what the crisis team said to police and why the police officers made the decisions that they did. I would also ask about what mental health training the police officers had received. If they are going to attend these types of situations, they could probably benefit from a brief course on various situations and how to handle them.

I know medical restraints are a last resort so I do also wonder if an ambulance had attended you, whether paramedics would have wanted them used in this situation.