AIBU to complaint to the police.

[NurseInTraining]

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

Sounds like a horrible situation to be in but ultimately they were there trying to save your life and prevent you from harming yourself. Do they really deserve a complaint? The damaged tendon would most likely have been done by yourself. Let it go and concentrate on getting some ongoing help.

I think you should focus on stopping cutting your wrists rather than complaining about the police who may well have saved your life

I mean I can tell you the real and probable reason this happened but you aren't going to like it.

Basically Police are fed up of being on call mental health support by people like the crisis team and CMHT. They are not trained mental health specialists and they never will be.

He wanted you outside because he just wanted to get you to hospital under a 136 not dick about with you for hours in the flat whilst you ummed and arred about going in "voluntary" or waiting hours for a ambulance and then being stuck there with you whilst "other professionals" on the end of the phone decided "what could be done".

There's nothing worse than being stuck at a call whilst adult social services, crisis team palm shit off, and make no decisions and default to "well they have capacity so up to them" when the police officer stood there can clearly see someone needs help .

As you said it's a 12 hour wait for an ambulance, those coppers would have had to stay with you till the ambulance arrived.

So he did what he did, tricked you outside, cuffed you behind to prevent you from further harming yourself, drive you in the van to hospital for you to get treatment.

Something tells me this PC before has become frustrated with "crisis" mental health teams and has learnt a trick or two about getting unwell patients seen quickly and appropriately.

Like I said, it's not great, but it's all he could do.

Policing today is more about people with mental health issues than actual policing it seems

I don't doubt you but that sounds like a lot of judgement made against me in about the 30 seconds he met me before handcuffing me.

Thanks for all the opinions. I think generally the answer has been to complain. I think maybe I can raise it as feedback, with support from my mental health support worker at uni and hope they take it on board and improve their practices or at least consider how they go about enacting their policies.
Maybe the officer could have explained what he was going to do and why? Nothing will change the trauma caused but I need to find a way to work through it.

Judgemee went? No. He is likely to have knowledge about your other attempts and call-outs.

It will be on record and passed to them as they attended

They aren't healthcare workers

Overall it seems they were helpful officers, as for the original one that handcuffed you, obviously only you know how you felt, but for me, id say if they had other high risk people that were not always as complaint, then I can understand the officers perspectives, and also depends on the training they had been given as to the methods used.

The police can't win. Under funded and understaffed and a massive amount of resources taken up my mental health issues. Police officers stretched beyond what is safe.
They prob got you outside to 136 you as it is the quickest option. Cuffed the rear when you had a injury to wrist seems wrong but we don't have knowledge of the officers risk assessment at the time, had you used something sharp, did they think you may harm yourself further?

There's a lot of bad press when it comes to police at the moment thanks to the Met, but I know a lot of police officers that put themselves at risk everyday and thrive to do the best of people and it's difficult to see them slagged off, it is prob one of the hardest jobs out there!

It's a shame police are put in that position and it's a shame you don't have access to better mental health support -all thanks to the fucking tories!

Sorry but whilst I understand the frustration of the job and being asked to do something thats not strictly in your remit. The police still have a responsibility to act decently and respectfully. If this officer is so frustrated with the mental health calls then perhaps he should be the one taking a look at how he's coping and taking a step back. Not abusing people in distress.

If you have had prior call outs for self harm, vulnerable adult situation he will have seen from the database.

He's presented with a person with a history of self harm who answers the door having cut themselves, he makes a snapshot decision get you outside under a 136 and convey to hospital or spend hours waiting for an ambulance.

I know which one I'd have done, and yeah it would have been cuffs and the van and straight up to a and e.

"I know which one I'd have done, and yeah it would have been cuffs and the van and straight up to a and e."

@CaptainBarbosa then you should not be allowed within a mile of mental health call outs if you think this is ok. All your doing in making life easy for yourself is damaging the trust of the public & worsening the trauma of the mental health patient (and their family). These things take time for a reason.

But he can't win can he? He stays there for 12 hours on a mental health call when he knows OP just needs to go straight to A and E, meanwhile his understaffed colleagues have now lost a crew to this, and next minute other calls can't be responded to.

And people say "police took hours to turn up to my burglary, what's the use of them?"

Well they are stuck in a flat with a mentally unwell patient who just needs to be taken to hospital but red tape and guidelines is preventing it.

They want to help, they do, but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Must officers prob don't want to be anywhere near a mental health job as they have zero training in MH and are expected to be the ones picking up the pieces, all the whole immediate jobs are coming in that they can't attend whilst "sitting" a mh patient at hospital.

It terrifies me the thought of needing a immediate police response in an emergency as the reality is they will be no one to attend as there isn't enough officers and the officers they done have are acting as councillors, therapists and baby sitters. It is a broken system.

@CaptainBarbosa there's a massive difference between immediately tricking someone outside to be sectioned and spending a few minutes talking to them and assessing the actual situation in front of them. People in the OPs situation need support and a calm measured approach. 30 minutes to develop a rapport with the OP, establish where she's at and if she was likely to come willingly. If after that time no progress is being made then sure a more decisive approach may be appropriate. But they should have at the very least given the OP the chance to come willingly.

@happygertie it's not the fault of mental health patients that there is inadequate services for them elsewhere. Many individuals with mental health issues are also victims of crime.

If you want someone to blame look at our shitshow of our successive governments who have catastrophically underfunded both the police and the NHS.

Stop victim blaming!

Fear not I'm not a copper, you couldn't pay me enough to do it. And all my friends who are ex coppers and current colleagues who are ex coppers (male and female) are well happy to be out of the job, despite first going in wanting to "make a difference" they left burnt out and exhausted, shit pension prospects, constantly undervalued and over scrutinized.

Camera phones in their faces daily was a issue for many of them, imagine not being able to work a shift without someone shoving a camera in your face to put you all over social media, for no other reason than you are doing a job.

There's a reason there is a police recruitment crisis. It's just not a job worth doing anymore.

It is not there fault no, but is also a lot to ask for police to pick up the prices. If people in a mental health crisis are victims of crime then they should be identified as a vulnerable victim of crime and provided safeguarding and the crime investigated, but there is soo much pressure eon police to manage MH crisis and they aren't equipped, if nothing else it isn't fair on the person suffering with mental health, they should have access to appropriately qualified MH workers, not police officers that do not have any specific or additional MH training and are up against it from the off. No one is getting a good deal. This is wholly down to the tories and they are the true criminals.

I think you’re focussing your energies on the wrong thing if I’m honest.

I'm in the ambulance service.

In my experience, section 136 patients are not handcuffed at all unless they are behaving in a volatile manner that could cause them or others harm. If you weren't, absolutely complain. Key word here is that they are PATIENTS not prisoners.

It is also 100% illegal and unethical to lure a patient outside in order to section them. If that is what happened, that is at best a misinterpretation of the mental health act and at worst an abuse of it.

Hope you're feeling better now love. My mental health isn't the best, it's purely by the grace of god I've never been where you have ❤️

That all sounds right.

That doesn't make his actions appropriate or legal though.

In the public sector we need to be mindful not to take ongoing frustrations out on individual patients/staff members/colleagues etc.

On a different tack here….
I know you say you have support via your Uni, and through counselling, but your health would ring alarm bells with me, given you are studying to become a Registered Mental Health Nurse. How can you sign your annual good health and character statement, when you are experiencing these crises?
Maybe it’s time to take a bit of time out, to get well first?
i truly hope your mental health improves. Take care.

@happygertie I don't disagree but no matter how overworked the police are or how under trained (in terms of mental health), they should still treat patients with dignity and respect.

The police themselves should be shouting louder about their lack of training. This situation isn't going to go away anytime soon. In fact it's going to get worse. I'm not suggesting they need to become fully trained mental health professionals but they do need to have a good understanding about deescalating mental health patients and getting them to the appropriate place with minimal additional trauma and distress.

I think a complaint is justified here. How else will things ever change if we don't make noise when things have gone wrong.

Op
I'm a police officer. The reason you were cuffed is because to cut your wrists you must have had a blade . The officer attending without knowing you wouldn't know if you were just a danger to yourself or to other people including them .

I've had situations where this is very relevant.

They detained you under a 136 to get you immediate help and support. Would you have voluntarily travelled to a&e to be assessed ?

If the police hadn't detained you the ambulance/ nhs could have used the capacity act if they felt you were in immediate danger so the result of the 136 was actually probably quicker to get
You assessed and treated .

Please be aware that police are faced with many threats 24/7 and without knowing you I'd have probably cuffed you too - some police forces now have it as policy to cuff to the rear as officers have been attacked and injured even with a detainee in front t stack cuffs .

With all due respect - the tendon damage - you chose to slice your wrists open with a blade - what did you think might happen ? When a person does this the consequences can be permanent damage - that was your choice.
It's grossly unfair to blame a third party for your actions.

I hope you are feeling better now ?

And no - a 136 patient is not a patient- they are DETAINED under 136 - it's not
Fluffy . They are a detainee. Not under arrest but not a patient to the police - they may be to ambulance.
Maybe if the nhs did their job instead of foisting it into police this wouldn't happen ?