AIBU to complaint to the police.

[NurseInTraining]

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

OH , your title. It's complain not complaint.

It doesn’t ‘say it all’, as shocking as it was. That was that and this is this.

I am simply asking whether I should complain about the behaviour described or not. That's it.

And you you replied to any of my other posts, you'd see I said NO you shouldn't complain about this situation.

But you only pick posts that support you or you can say "no actually" to. Rather than posts that are balanced, have points and are telling you not to complain.

Yeah it is super fun. I love being in resus and having emergency surgery. I love the feeling of confusion that comes from significant blood loss and I definitely chose to "stab myself in the wrist'. I super enjoyed being stripped in resus and nearly dying. Thanks for your compassion.
BTW - sarcasm if anyone is doubting.
And yes, being well enough weeks later means that I can't have been unwell weeks before.

An elderly neighbour a few doors from me was having some sort mh crisis yesterday and that involved 5 police cars and a large police van and numerous officers, what a massive drain on resources.

Firstly I’m sorry you were so unwell but you are being unreasonable
you cut yourself and needed help
the police officers who attended maybe going on experiences they have come across previously and they have to protect themselves first.They are not there to deal with mental health crises but I’m sure they do the best they can.You said yourself you weren’t entirely sure what happened that day.There are two sides to every story.The second set of officers that looked after you would have been rushing around for you and you say they were so kind to you.That’s great but also the reason why one went off to get medication and you say they sped to get you to a meeting in time was probably because they had another long list of calls they were supposed to be on and needed to get in eith asap.No wonder the police are moaned at for never having time to deal with anything. I like others on this post would suggest that maybe a break from your course until you are fully well would be better.I really hope you get the help you need

What year are you in op?

Also, I will say, I've studied policing and MH, especially focusing on problems. I can't see this as a complaint. I can understand it caused you undue stress, however if you weren't acting rationally (and you are not a reliable witness to rational in a crisis) then the police officer made a quick and reliable decision which kept them and you safe.

Tendon damage is a small price to pay for the life of you, the officers and any possible bystander.

And I say this knowing of people in crises who have phoned for help, not received police help, murdered someone and then blamed it on the lack of immediate response.

bylineinvestigates.com/2017/06/20/leaked-official-report-of-probe-into-murder-by-schizophrenic-patient-nicola-edgington/

The trial also heard how, hours before her attacks in 2011, Edgington pleaded with police and staff at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Woolwich that she urgently needed to be detained because of her deteriorating mental condition.

Just starting year 2. I'm doing theory right now but due to go on placement next at the end of October.

@NurseInTraining please read the above article. Police are being shaped by past complaints. They don't act fast enough, they act too quickly. They made the right choice. Nobody died.

https://bylineinvestigates.com/2017/06/20/leaked-official-report-of-probe-into-murder-by-schizophrenic-patient-nicola-edgington/

I agree with all of this.

I think it comes down to lack of understanding rather than a malicious act. The police do a very challenging job and I think on this occasion they just wanted to make sure you were safe. I don’t think cuffs were right, but you were not hurt and got safely to help that you yourself had requested. In the long run it was probably best to section you as otherwise you are sent home with some weak referral somewhere and a phone call.
I wish you all the best OP.

You weren't ignored, you weren't beaten, you didn't have someone kneeling on your neck whilst you begged you couldn't breathe until you died.

You were swiftly detained, taken to hospital for care and accompanied until completion.

Sounds like you were lucky.

This is not the minimum level of standard, but how are the police or yourself to know if you would have went willingly. You weren't acting rationally.

You are still here. Possibly because of that police office. We will never know, but they may have saved your life, your next step might have been fatal.

You are possibly alive because of the actions those police officers took. And you want to complain. Please think about that.

So you are cutting yourself to the point you regularly need hospital treatment but are complaining about sore wrists from being handcuffed to keep yourself and the people responding to you safe?
You are being so unreasonable and the fact you are a student mental health nurse is a scary thought.

I think this is a fair comment and argument towards handcuffing me. No one is perfect and I am sure that the officer believed he was doing the right thing. I honestly don't doubt that for a second. Psychosis and schizophrenia is terrifying and I want this to be what I work in as I think this is the most significant mental health condition affecting society. I can't imagine how terrifying it must be to not be able to trust what you see and hear.

And I add, SOMEONE ELSE is alive because the police took the place of an ambulance.

Someone could have died if an ambulance was being held up at this situation where the police were able to detain you and get you to hospital.

Or would you have preferred the ambulance?**
Please answer that.

Hi, sorry to need to spell this out but people that self harm can still feel pain. I don't self harm regularly now but I am still vulnerable to significant acute trauma that can trigger a crisis.

Yes make a complaint.

There is still a lack of knowledge about mental health issues and how to deal with people in crisis in the police force.

So a complaint might actually lead to more training for these officers so that they won't do that to other people who face the same issues as you, which would be a positive outcome.

Handcuffing someone who has just cut her wrists sounds ludicrous to me.

Unless you were being violent and preventing them from taking you to hospital and they had to try to restrain you for your own safety their behaviour was unacceptable and in fact made your situation worse.

Hope you are feeling OK now.

YABU do not complain, the officer acted appropriately.

OP...with all due respect, you really do need to stop complaining about the speed at which you got the actual hospital treatment you needed, and start thinking about getting help for your mental health.

Without the efficient (but to you, heavy handed 🤷‍♀️) way this officer got you to hospital and stitched up (for what sounds like not the first time either!) you might have been bleeding out for hours...as you said yourself, it can take 12 hours for an ambulance to arrive, and this officer, with his 'method' got you there in 15 minutes 👍

He's seen this many times before, and knows how difficult the situation can get in terms of help arriving and potentially escalation in the crisis of the patient. Expeditiously dealing with it is often the best way to get the help needed.

Does your MH support worker not have a duty of care towards you which would mean they should complain about your treatment by the police if they believe the police ill-treated you?

I ask because when I was under the care of the MH team, when I discussed something that she thought was a safeguarding issue, it was taken right out of my hands. It was all pretty grim actually, as it affected someone else but when she became aware of it she said she had to take it further.

Does your MH worker realise the can of worms they opened mentioned it to you?

Hi, sorry to need to spell this out but people that self harm can still feel pain. I don't self harm regularly now but I am still vulnerable to significant acute trauma that can trigger a crisis.
I didn't say anywhere that you could not feel pain OP.
My point is, the officer dealing with you was scared of feeling significant pain if you stabbed him with the sharp object you had been cutting yourself with.
By your own admission you received help very quickly, fair enough, he didn't spend forever talking you round (time is precious OP, as are resources right now). He dealt with you quickly, effectively and safely for all involved.
A slightly bruised wrist is not something I would be complaining about in this situation but we are all different.

He does have a duty of care and has reported concerns to the NHS crisis team but with little result. This is just something he mentioned in passing during my appointment yesterday and made me think. I didn't expect it to turn into such a big deal raising it on here to be honest - my fault.
Equally I have capacity (despite what some on here may think) to make my own decisions and this doesn't put me immediately at risk so it would be up to me to complain.

Totally get his concerns about his safety and these are 100% valid but at no point did he search me. If he had any concerns that I might have had a weapon surely he would have searched me?