AIBU to complaint to the police.

[NurseInTraining]

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

Sorry to say, I agree with this.

You are getting a huge amount of support OP, from medics and police. I would focus on getting some ongoing support and preventing this, rather than complaining about somebody who was trying to help. It was not his remit and he was doing the best he could.

Agree with all of this.

I wouldn't be complaining about the only people who would help you out of a situation you caused.

@stillvicarinatutu, thank you for doing your job.

I can't imagine how hard it is.

This is exactly the sort of post I meant upthread. Would you say someone caused their heart attack or stroke or broken leg? Why is mental illness viewed as a choice by some people?

I'm sorry, I forgot we have to pretend these are the same thing now.

And if the only person willing to help someone with a heart attack was a police officer because his doctor couldn't be bothered, and then the person having the heart attack complained the police officer didn't have the same medical knowledge as a doctor, I'd tell them to get a grip too.

I’m so sorry to hear what happened to you. It’s a really good example , to hit home what happens when services are so stretched.
i think we all (especially the OP) need to consider what we do, and how it can impact on services - and their knock on events.

I had reason to get an ambulance last weekend. First time in my life. I felt guilty that it came so very quickly (although was incredibly grateful, of course) as I knew what would be happening to others further down the list. (NHS24 sent it out to me, as I was struggling with breathing in the midst of Covid.)

So i am an RMN 13 years 8 in CAMHS inpatient 13-18yrs and then the rest community Adult. You have great potential to be a good RMN yourself as personal experience of going through the mental health system and also experiencing mental health problems is invaluable. However, regardless of whether i think you should or shouldn't complain about what happened ill say this, if you are needing to be dealing with the crisis team due to being that distressed etc that you cut your wrists open bad enough as you report, i ask myself, as a RMN in training you know what treatment you will need when you self harm to the level you did, i get the calling of the crisis team, but you know you will need it treated so if you called the crisis team you in that moment felt like you couldn't go to hospital to get treatment which means from a professional perspective that you went crisis team first before thinking you need treatment and should of gone to get some, so crisis team decided you need police etc, so police turn up and they know that you must be in a bad enough way to potentially hurt yourself further or possibly them.

Now you say you were fine when they arrived as in you spoke with them etc, but you know how many teenagers and adults i have worked with who have self harmed to such a degree its serious life threatening (one time its was my keychild slicing half their neck open and it was gaping at least a cm or so by the shoulder bit no fucking joke it was horrific and they stood there with a towel round and as they stuck half head out bathroom door talked to me life nothing till i clocked something was wrong and did my nurse thing) and yet will stand there and talk to you and hide it presenting as absolutely ok and then hit or last out at some point, but also there are those that dont.

I have been the keyworker / care coordinator for many that after going through the CAMHS system decide to train to be an RMN, they want to give back, because many times we saved their lives and they want to then do the same for others using their own experiences knowledge and build on that. If i tell you how many of them started off amazing, you know how many that started before they were ready, as in they were still self harming and needing interventions from mental health services etc ended up making their mental health worse or couldn't handle the triggers you get working in mental health and it happens daily at times and so many drop out normally about the end of year 2 stage from most i have kept up with as many like to tell us their progress as they want us to be proud they are following in our footsteps.

So what i am saying is whilst you are still going through times where you need this level of intervention due to mental health crisis you are experiencing and if you do cut to this level then your still at a level where crisis team is your first port of call as you are unable to make the rational decision in the moment to use your knowledge of mental health and self harm treatment and go get that treatment leading to the crisis team doing what they did leading to police etc then you are not fully ready to be a RMN, only when you have had a decent amount of time with no incidents to that kind of level and an ability to recognise that in moments where you are struggling (and you will prob have those moments now and again) and need some extra support before you get to the point you cut your wrists will you be fully ready.

Trust me, you will probably be great if what you say regarding your feedback is true and im sure you have no reason to lie, but this is HARD work, im sure you know that, and yes you're great in placement, its a COMPLETELY different thing once qualified, the bumpers of being a student are removed day one. The responsibility is MASSIVE.. One of the most rewarding jobs i have ever done but one of the hardest also.

I praise all those wanting to go into a profession they have lived experience in, but unless you are a long way from the serious self harming and needing that level of services you may become unstuck at some point, probably sooner rather than later. But i wish you well and good luck.

As the professional standards liaison officer for our nursing programmes, I can only echo these concerns. As advised previously in this thread, I deal with cases where students have either/both physical and mental health challenges. On top of your own annual declaration of good health and character, I would be sending you for regular OHU checks, OP. My strongest recommendation (hypothetically, of course) would be that you take time out to get well, show that you have really robust coping mechanisms of support in place, and show an extended period of good health, before rejoining your programme.

I would also add that it’s not my experience (as a PP has suggested) that universities only want the income from central funding, and will continue with students who are blatantly unfit for practise. My experience is - across two large Unis - that we are regularly checking the requirements for FTP. There’s responsibilities for workforce planning, and also relationships with placement providers; for example, you’re damn sure that if we send someone with a lot of issues to a site, they will be less keen to take more students in the future….

OP, the statements you’ve made about empathy wouldn’t seem to be matching with accounts of your behaviours. We all struggle with honest reflection on occasion, and we should be aware of the need to
be objective about our own practises. As a year 2 student nurse (who is currently not undertaking the practise elements), I would - with respect - suggest that you don’t have those elevated, experienced, skills as yet.

I genuinely hope that your health improves, and you are able to practise effectively, and support your patients/client groups. But, recognise that may not be right now, and focussing on that is more constructive than the energies being put into considering complaining about other emergency service professionals.

I'm so sorry @NameChangeNameChangeNameChangeName

But yes, the comments about police "entertaining" the OP "for hours" and driving about to get her antibiotics stuck in my craw as well. So much so that I was beginning to think "surely this is a troll? Nobody can be this self-unaware"?

So yes, OP, I do feel you are being unreasonable.

You slit your wrists then called for help (not for the first time) and are now focusing your energies on the people who answer your call for help.

I have sympathy for people with mental health issues, however your posts seem to show a real self of entitlement- are you aware of just how much assistance and support you are getting from so many different sources?

I would suggest, if you can, that you forget about the handcuff issue and focus your energies on preventing this happening again and if it does, perhaps try and have plans in place to self present at hospital.

I also echo a previous poster who felt that you only displayed empathy for others with MH problems, showing quite a disparaging attitude and lack of respect to others who may be impacted by others mental health problems.

I do wish you all the best, but you have received some good information on this thread and I hope it gives you food for thought.

I don't know how to phrase this gently so please don't be offended with my brash question but could what happened weeks previously (self harm so severe it required life saving surgery) have coloured how the police reacted to the most recent incident?

I'm not suggesting the way you were treated was warranted at all but I'm wondering if they thought they were walking into something and the heavy handedness of the rough officer was down to his preconceptions (again this isn't fair or just)

There is so much going on here though. The police are yet another service being stretched to breaking point and I'm so afraid as to where its going to end.

You sound so eloquent and so passionate and so determined @NurseInTraining but you must have been (and still be?) very unwell. Self harm seems like a slight downplay. You needed life saving surgery and then did the very same thing a few weeks later.

I hope you a in a better place now.

OP you are not well. I think you should really take on board what the professionals on this thread have told you and give yourself time to get better before you do more of your course.

I'm going to point out something else to you that I don't think you've even considered.

The way you talk about police is as if these sorts of incidents with yourself have happened many times. It wasn't just this time police have attended.

Well EVERY single time you have met the police, a safeguarding report and risk assessment documenting what you have done and said and how you present will be filed on police systems.

When you work in jobs with vulnerable people you have to be vetted. You may have heard of things called DBS checks. Vetting involves checking out a person's criminal history, but EVERY interaction with the police is logged.

If you have a long, repeated and current pattern of serious MH concerns you are never going to pass vetting for a job involving risk.

By not allowing yourself the time to step back, reflect and get well, you are literally sabotaging your own future.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible to overcome this in the future but you aren't going to be in a position to work in a job like that for quite some time after the last police involvement.

You'd need to show a sustained period of stability before you'd be considered.

Sorry, I’ve only just spotted your reply.

Has anyone at uni suggested taking time out?
Number 1 lesson when working in mental health is not being able to look after others if you can’t look after yourself.

The ‘only doing theory now’, is that because placement hasn’t started or has OH recommended not completing placements for now?

You didn't "self-harm", you slit your wrist. Of course they needed to call the police. No psychologist can "talk you through" that.

What are you basing this reply on?

The OP's posts. Can I help you?