AIBU to complaint to the police.

[NurseInTraining]

So first of all I generally have always had a really good relationship with police officers that I come into contact with - they do an incredibly difficult job and don't need any extra hassle but...

For context I have mental health problems and sometimes self harm. A few weeks ago I contacted the local crisis team to say I was struggling and they contacted the police who came around. They asked me to come outside my house and then immediately handcuffed me behind my back (I had cut my wrist) and detained me under section 136 of the mental health act (you can't be detained under a 136 if you are in your home hence why he asked me to come outside).

I have no history of violence and I don't believe that handcuffing me behind my back was necessary. The officer's partner apologised for how it was handled afterwards and the next pair of officers that looked after me in hospital (police have to wait with you while you are waiting for an assessment) also said that he was heavy handed.

I don't think I should have been handcuffed but if they needed to for safety I think they could have handcuffed me with my hands in front of me rather than behind. Afterwards I had bruised wrists and I needed stitches as the wounds in my wrist were so bad. I don't think this was helped by the handcuffs.

It was very traumatic but I didn't think much of it afterwards as I was unwell however I have since found out that I have tendon damage in my wrist (not sure where or when from - could easily have come from elsewhere but might have come from this event).

I was mentioned this to a mental health support worker at my uni and he said that he thinks I should make a complaint to the police about this. It never occurred to me to do so before but I am also a student mental health nurse (ironic) and I believe that education about helpful way to work with people with mental health problems is really important and that nothing changes if problems aren't reported.

So should I complain?

The responses - basically be thankful no one knelt on your neck and killed you.

🙄 Only on MN.

She didn't want the police . She wanted medical attention. Unfortunately when people are cutting their wrist it involves something pointy and stabby- ambulance don't have personal protective equipment so police would have been called by ambulance anyway . To deal with the pointy stabby thing . I really do not know what people expect. The sense of poor me I'm entitled is astounding.

If you are a danger to yourself then you could be a danger to anyone attending. The reason cuffs aren't used is because they don't know who they are dealing with and if they lose a danger . I've had self harmers secrete razor blades in their cheeks - in cuffs you can't carry in trying to hurt yourself or anyone else . The officers (4 wasn't it ? That's half a shift ) turned up and don't know what they are confronting. Would you walk into a house and ask nicely for the razor blade ? Or would you protect yourself and others first ?

The main issue here is that the public services - police, ambulance, mental health support etc, have been decimated by lack of funding and the government are at fault for that and we need to hold them to account.

That being said we all also have a personal responsibility for our own actions.

The police weren't in time to stop me being raped as all available crews were on "other calls" and couldn't get there in time despite it being a priority call. Perhaps in your self reflection @NurseInTraining you could seek support in finding strategies to help you to self present at hospital and obtain your medications etc. Under my circumstances, reading your posts of how the police were "keeping you entertained for hours" and "going to the pharmacy" for your antibiotics, whilst remembering how desperate I was for help, doesn't make me think you are amazingly empathetic. Quite the opposite.

Mind you @stillvicarinatutu it's also depressing as fuck reading a police officer saying "Stop being a self entitled attention seeking numpty" to someone experiencing mental health problems. That isn't very fucking empathetic either.

I forgot I I mention this comment too @NurseInTraining. Not much reflective skill shown in this sentence "I have literally helped officers chose their next car before as I am stuck with them for hours". How do you think that makes people like me feel who were waiting for police that didn't arrive in time? Where's your empathy?

I think people who are voting that you are not unreasonable have not then gone and read all your posts.As others have pointed out you are either very defensive or don’t bit her replying to peoples posts if they are not on your side.I really hope you get the help you need so that in future people such as @NameChangeNameChangeNameChangeName get the help they desperately needed.

My heart hurts for you. I hope you're ok

I can't see the voting as that feature isn't on the app. I would be interested in knowing the results?

Another problem is that using police resources has a knock on effect on other services. For example, if the police had been available for me, I wouldn't have had to use the NHS, A and E and all the follow ups. In the end I didn't use the criminal justice system as I had no faith the men would be convicted as I know how fucked up the system is and I didn't feel strong enough for it. If the police had arrived earlier I think it's likelier they would have been convicted and justice could have been done (but that's a whole other thread I guess).

YABU 46%

I use the app but sometimes I find the post on browser if I feel strong enough to vote about it.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4644510-aibu-to-complaint-to-the-police

Ironically there is a post today asking "To all those wondering why police aren't investigating crime" and saying its because > 80% of calls to the police are mental health issue ones and not crime related.

It's no wonder you were treated like this - doing this to you gets you off the police hands faster allowing them to get on with what they are supposed to be doing. FOr anyone who says that dealing with people like you is their job - really is it - I would say its the job of the mental health units and we need to vote next time is such a way they they are properly funded so people like OP are seen too but proper health professionals and not two coppers who really probably hate what their job has become.

I wonder if some of the people commenting here are so nasty about people needing treatment for physical health problems. "The fluffy treatment you think you deserve", "drain on resources", etc. It's not OP's fault that the emergency services' policies and processes are set up the way they are. People should not be blamed for having mental health crises. It's not a choice they've made.

I am unclear as to why OP didn't call a taxi and go to the hospital herself. It sounds like she didn't want all the help beyond stitches.

You shouldn’t complain. You should get proper help and stop wasting police time and resources.

She is not being blamed, but the police cannot help her. The hospital staff can.

She had used a blade to cause serious injury. Police should not be risking their lives when dealing with people like this. It is safer for everyone to handcuff and get her straight to a hospital where the help is. A couple officers stay with her and the others can get on with police work.

They got her the help she needed. Help they could not provide.

I'm talking about the way commenters have been posting to and about the OP (and other people having mental health crises), not the incident. The tone of that post addressed to me is very different from the one about her wanting the drama above.

@NurseInTraining It’s only fair to forewarn you that there is almost no chance the NMC will approve your PIN once you qualify if you suffer such significant mental health issues.

Your uni will tell you whatever you want to hear generally as long as they keep getting your student fees funding their institution. Plus there is a HUGE difference with being fit to be a student nurse being fit to be a registered nurse?

Have your uni told you that after you qualify you will need to pass the NMC fitness to practice test? That a panal will decide on whether this role is suitable for you? That multiple people have been turned away from the profession at this point and denied a pin (for far more minor issues than you deadline here) despite spending 3 years qualifying as a nurse? I’m guessing not.

I seriously suggest looking into the NMC requirements before you waste more time.

That's absolutely vile and needs reporting.

Sadly not shocking. The police in the UK are a bunch of thugs.

Yes . My bad . I bit . I'm not immune to mh issues. I've had my own over the years. This year alone 2 of my colleagues have committed suicide. I am not unsympathetic- yet it grates that someone "self harming " to the extent they've caused lacerations deep enough to need stitches and cause nerve damage is not wondering whether to complain about the people that came to help . Because they cuffed her . Because she has sliced her own wrists open with something presumably very sharp and dangerous if used against the people who came to help . But yes , I shouldn't have said that . It was the "get another job love " comments that got my back up a bit . I apologise for being crass.

But she does. That's part of it.

Part of the call for help is having someone do the long talking round to get her in the car. The attention from that is something some people crave. It's part of the crisis.

Unfortunately, police are not trained or able to help with that and they dont have the time. They got her in the car and up the road to the hospital within minutes, where she got the help she needed and 2 officers stayed with her.

The hours long talking to get her in the car just isnt possible when the police are desperately needed to prevent in-progress crimes and investigate reported crimes.

@NameChangeNameChangeNameChangeName so sorry you had to go through that 💐

I completely agree with this.

Fair play for apologising @stillvicarinatutu I do actually think OP is unreasonable anyway as I've said. The people who are to blame for this are the government, not you or OP! Unfortunately we play right into their hands fighting amongst ourselves instead of punching up (so to speak)

Shocking isn't it.

I think the NHS really need to have like community MH ambulances or something. A nurse and a psychiatrist can drive to the calls, asses and move on.

Then the police can get on with policing.

I've the utmost respect for police who I work alongside daily, I think they do a very hard job.

Also OP, I think you really need to look at your career, like other have said, with the significant issues you currently have I don't believe you are going to get your PIN.

Uni will keep you on because they are getting money for you.

But honestly OP for your own mental health, I think perhaps you need a break from all this. Vicarious traumatisation is a real thing in these types of job, and I feel it would be improper and a safeguarding issue to put you in these positions daily.

My son has had mental health crises. I was told very clearly by police that they could not section him on a 136 when he was at home. There is a significant difference between taking someone to hospital in a caring and supportive way and tricking them into coming outside and handcuffing them. The OP was not unconscious in her house. She opened her door and spoke to the police. It does not appear that she was refusing help and actually sounds like she had asked for it from services. Help is just that. It should not have meant being handcuffed and put in the back of a police van. OP I am so sorry this happened to you. Our mental health services are not fit for purpose.