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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That this looks like a stunt to undermine trans issues

369 replies

TempName01 · 21/09/2022 18:03

Article in the Daily Mail, not sure if I should link to it…

A Canadian teacher in transition to female is pictured with enormous prosthetic breasts which they wear as part of their gender identity. When I saw the article I thought it must be a stunt against transgender people and trying to ridicule men transitioning to female. If they actually want to dress that way then to me, it looks like they are fetishising rather than genuinely transgender.

I am usually all for dressing how ever you want but it just looks so inappropriate, AIBU?

OP posts:
jetadore · 21/09/2022 18:16

YABU. It’s not undermining trans issues it is part of trans issues. Men transition for many reasons, one of which is to satisfy the fetish of being perceived, sexually, as a female. The fact that this fetish has to take a central role in the person’s identity and everyone else needs to make allowances for it and play along is one of the peculiarities of modern life.

PixieTom · 06/10/2022 16:11

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Zerogravity · 06/10/2022 16:15

Whether it's a stunt or not, it's certainly proof of how ridiculous the laws in Canada are.

Grandeur · 06/10/2022 16:15

Huh? You think a teacher is risking their job and reputation for a stunt? No, this is obviously how they live their life.

VladmirsPoutine · 06/10/2022 16:22

I've read about it a couple of times and I still don't get it tbh because even a woman wouldn't be allowed to dress like that. Trans or not that person is dressed inappropriately. I do think there is some element of a stunt though to generate headlines. Most trans people just want to live their lives and not be dragged into this ridiculous culture war.

amoobaa · 06/10/2022 16:27

I haven’t seen the article and I don’t know the answer.

I also realise there are a lot of complex issues to address and resolve in relation to trans issues.

I realise a lot of people are angry and concerned about women rights.

However, I’m wondering if there is any space for the acknowledgment that there are a lot of people who identify as trans and have done nothing wrong and have no intention of hurting anyone. If anything they are the ones being treated badly by society.

I have lived, loved and worked with and for trans people- male to female and female to male.

There is very little talk of female to male transition.

Is it possible to stop generalising and acknowledge the complexity of the situation. If I were a transwomen reading a lot of the mumsnet threads about transwomen, I’d feel so hated and alone.

Original poster
TempName01 · 06/10/2022 16:27

Teachers and anyone for that matter risk their jobs and reputation on a daily basis so not sure that’s a good argument!

OP posts:
VestaTilley · 06/10/2022 16:27

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KeepingTheWormsQuiet · 06/10/2022 16:33

I get tired of the "just want to live their lives" cliche. That might apply to a few, but I have lost sympathy with anyone who wants to encroach on women's spaces and those who are basically just flaunting a sexual fetish in public. I think for a lot of them (a certain comedian) including women and children in their validation is part of the sexual thrill. I don't want to be part of their fetish and school children should certainly not be included in their teacher's fetish.

Blocked · 06/10/2022 16:34

I don't think anyone would dress like this for a stunt. It's totally inappropriate. I know it's not cool to give a shit about children and their well-being but at some point safeguarding has to kick in.

Hearthnhome · 06/10/2022 16:35

amoobaa · 06/10/2022 16:27

I haven’t seen the article and I don’t know the answer.

I also realise there are a lot of complex issues to address and resolve in relation to trans issues.

I realise a lot of people are angry and concerned about women rights.

However, I’m wondering if there is any space for the acknowledgment that there are a lot of people who identify as trans and have done nothing wrong and have no intention of hurting anyone. If anything they are the ones being treated badly by society.

I have lived, loved and worked with and for trans people- male to female and female to male.

There is very little talk of female to male transition.

Is it possible to stop generalising and acknowledge the complexity of the situation. If I were a transwomen reading a lot of the mumsnet threads about transwomen, I’d feel so hated and alone.

Your posts doesn’t make sense.

I don’t know anyone on Mn or real life that thinks trans people ‘all have the intention of hurting people’. Though, the pushing of certain trans rights, do actively harm women. So, imo, anyone pushing for the erosion of women is harming them.

why is there little talk of female to male trans people? Is it because FtoM don’t appear to do things like want to teach with a large prosthetic cock poking out of their trousers? Are FtoM trying to erase gay men and make them have sex with them.

As for trans people reading MN and feeling bad, if they actually read the words they wouldn’t feel bad. Because they would understand the problem.

But also, do you know how many places on the internet, women are hated. How many places GC women are hated? Have threats made to their life, livilhood, family? How concerned are you about that?

I am afraid trying to shut down discussion here using ‘but they will feel hated if you express your opinion’ isn’t going to work.

Hearthnhome · 06/10/2022 16:37

TempName01 · 06/10/2022 16:27

Teachers and anyone for that matter risk their jobs and reputation on a daily basis so not sure that’s a good argument!

Are you saying the ruling that students and parents have to accept it is also fake?

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2022 16:39

However, I’m wondering if there is any space for the acknowledgment that there are a lot of people who identify as trans and have done nothing wrong and have no intention of hurting anyone

Well of course there's space to acknowledge that.

The issue is that there are vulnerable women who will be triggered by a male body in their space, regardless of the intent. I often wonder why they're of so little consequence in the debate?

The other issue is how can we legislate in such a way that identifies those who want to take advantage? There are many men who identify as men who have no intention of hurting women either, but we made spaces female only for a reason.

RebeccaCloud9 · 06/10/2022 16:39

Ah, I've just seen a TikTok about this which makes the most sense out of everything else I've seen. The post said that the teacher is in trouble with the school for refusing to accept ridiculous wokery but they can't sack him so he's gone all out to show how ridiculous it all is. Speculation is that he wants to get sacked then sue for discrimination. Don't know how true it is, but it would make more sense than actually believing he is genuine.

KatMcBundleFace · 06/10/2022 16:40

There's footage of the teachers school where the Principal is defending this teacher's right to express their gender identity.

So which is madder, dressing like that, or defending it?

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2022 16:42

I know it's not cool to give a shit about children and their well-being

Welcome to 2022

Where wanting to safeguard children makes you a bigot. Or alternatively extreme right wing. Probably both.

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2022 16:42

So which is madder, dressing like that, or defending it?

Oh the defence is much worse.

GreyBlossom · 06/10/2022 16:44

Grandeur · 06/10/2022 16:15

Huh? You think a teacher is risking their job and reputation for a stunt? No, this is obviously how they live their life.

I think lots of people risk their job to gain publicity for their cause, yes

KatMcBundleFace · 06/10/2022 16:49

The Principal is interviewed about this on the first part of this clip.

Canada has really got itself in a bit of a pickle here.

KatMcBundleFace · 06/10/2022 16:50

And don't the right wing just love it.

Of cause its mad, but it's the law there.

amoobaa · 06/10/2022 16:52

Society used to say gay men were just sexual perverts who should be arrested and banned from working with children.

Some paedophiles are gay men. But you can’t say all gay men are paedophiles.

You basically say ‘for a lot of them’ it’s just a fetish and ‘maybe a few’ are deserving of basic respect.

There’s a similarity in the pattern of discrimination.

Generalising this way isn’t going to help anyone.

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2022 16:56

Some paedophiles are gay men. But you can’t say all gay men are paedophiles.

You basically say ‘for a lot of them’ it’s just a fetish and ‘maybe a few’ are deserving of basic respect.

There’s a similarity in the pattern of discrimination

No. That's very lazy arguing.

Gay men never asked for access to female spaces. Granting gay men rights never impinged upon the rights of anyone else or made women less safe.

Don't you see this colossal difference?

TooBigForMyBoots · 06/10/2022 16:56

@Blocked, he can't be doing this for anything other than a stunt.🤷‍♀️ I have a lot of teachers in my family, if any of them turned up to work like this, they'd be told to wear a a properly fitting bra for their health as well as for professional reasons. Teachers are responsible for creating a learning rather than a distracting, environment for their pupils.

TooBigForMyBoots · 06/10/2022 16:59

RebeccaCloud9 · 06/10/2022 16:39

Ah, I've just seen a TikTok about this which makes the most sense out of everything else I've seen. The post said that the teacher is in trouble with the school for refusing to accept ridiculous wokery but they can't sack him so he's gone all out to show how ridiculous it all is. Speculation is that he wants to get sacked then sue for discrimination. Don't know how true it is, but it would make more sense than actually believing he is genuine.

Cheers @RebeccaCloud9.

Any information on why he was in trouble in the first place?

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2022 17:03

If it is a stunt to highlight the absurdity of self ID and TWAW I'd say he's succeeded spectacularly.

The school is backed into a corner, looking like idiots who can't safeguard their pupils.

The extreme TRAs are also in a bind, because by declaring himself a woman, he is one (according to their own rules).

Game set and match