That this looks like a stunt to undermine trans issues

[TempName01]

Article in the Daily Mail, not sure if I should link to it…

A Canadian teacher in transition to female is pictured with enormous prosthetic breasts which they wear as part of their gender identity. When I saw the article I thought it must be a stunt against transgender people and trying to ridicule men transitioning to female. If they actually want to dress that way then to me, it looks like they are fetishising rather than genuinely transgender.

I am usually all for dressing how ever you want but it just looks so inappropriate, AIBU?

Really poor argument.
Autogynaphelia is a thing. Look it up.

Yes, the erosion of women isn’t ok.

But I stand by my point that there is a lot of hate for transwomen on mumsnet. Surely you see that?

just because I think transwomen are generally being discriminated against, doesn’t mean I don’t understand the other issues going on nor does it mean I think they are less important.

Your black and white thinking isn’t going to help. I know it’s hard to hold multiple complex perspectives in mind but if we want to make progress, surely it’s worth the effort and time?

I’m painfully aware of the patriarchy and the many threats to women’s lives. What on earth makes you think I’m not concerned about that?

I’m simply saying that the way these posts tend to go, is a lot of hate is expressed towards all transwomen.

Also, if you care so much then share your views. I’m here to learn. There’s no need to accuse me of shutting down a conversation.

I’m trying to make it more intelligent, not shut it down.

But I stand by my point that there is a lot of hate for transwomen on mumsnet. Surely you see that?

can you illustrate with some examples?

Nope again, that argument doesn’t make sense.

Gay men didn’t ask for the removal of other peoples rights. They didn’t ask to access spaces created to protect another group of people.

That person is literally living their wet dream. Ugh.

There was a post on line somewhere which reported that this teachers had received some kind of reprimand for "toxic masculinity" and fed up of "woke culture" this is his protest. He's daring the school to take action against him.

The problem is he's said he's a transwoman so there is nothing anyone can do about it. The law in Canada is self ID (Bill C16) so if someone says they are trans then they are trans.

Anyone thinking this is making a mockery of the challenges faced by people with gender dysphoria would be correct but if you thought "being kind" was the right thing to do then you are part of the problem. It's time for people to wake up and reclaim reality and scientific truth.

If you take just a moment to think about the implications of self ID and have an ounce of concern for people with gender dysphoria then you will understand that self ID makes their lives harder rather than easier in addition to undermining women's rights, safeguarding children and vulnerable adults and people who are same sex attracted.

The only people who benefit are men but I'm not permitted, on MN, to speculate about their motives.

But I stand by my point that there is a lot of hate for transwomen on mumsnet.

Keep telling yourself that rather than thinking about why women object to self ID but there really isn't hate for transwomen. There is plenty of anger that womens concerns are being ignored in favour of facilitating the fantasies of men who get to wear the protection of "trans".

I now believe he probably is an abrasive character in a dispute showing up the ideology. But it does show up the ideology, because apparently expressing a belief that there's only two sexes gets you in trouble while self-identifying as trans makes you untouchable under his country's laws.

That person with grotesque fake pendulous appendages clearly is fetishising and attention seeking.

Quite unsuitable for a teacher in my opinion.
Nothing but a showoffy person.

Where did I display black and white thinking? There was non at all.

Not all people pushing for women to lose rights, in favour of trans people are trans. Not all trans people believe twaw.

I don’t see hate for trans women. I see women who are opposed to women (and childrens) rights and safety being removed to accommodate trans women. I see hate for Trans women who also are sexual deviants (such as Karen white) who exploit and harm vulnerable people. But then there’s hate for men and women who do that to. So that’s not trans hate. It’s hate of sexual abusers, regardless of sex or gender.

You absolutely did try and shut down the conversation with ‘poor trans women will feel so bad if they read this’. They would only feel bad if they only read small parts or are sexual abusers.

and I am sharing my views. Not sure what you are reading though.

THIS!!
Sexual fetishisation dressed up as “ Trans”
”I might have an erection poking through my dress but I’m Trans and you can’t touch ME!”

IMO very important not to let sympathy and concern for TQ+ people and specifically children cloud you to be able to clearly see and speak out against wholly inappropriate, unacceptable and sexually motivated behaviours.

Otherwise we're eventually going to see this whole movement swallowed down in scandal and disaster through a lot of people looking the other way while murmuring 'it's complicated'.

If a female woman can't present themselves like this, why should a transwoman be able to? It makes no sense.

Because they are male.

Can you explain why you find this undermines other men who want to be women, rather than women?

I think what the OP is getting at is that this is a stunt not to "undermine trans issues" but to show just how damaging the Canadian legislation is. There is a school of thought that Kayla Lemieux is not trans at all, that Kayla Lemieux is a "persona" adopted by an individual who wishes to point out what the Canadian legislation permits. So Kayla Lemieux pops up, with comedy breasts, and most Canadians are horrified, the school and COuncil and government tie themselves in knots over what to do, because Kayla Lemieux's actions are in fact perfectly fine according to Canadian law which states that a woman is anyone who says they are a woman.

Whether this is true or not doesn't really matter. Kayla Lemieux might genuinely think that the fake tits are the best thing since sliced bread and entirely appropriate for a classroom. Kayla Lemieux's actions - whatever the motive - are having the effect of peak-transing a lot of parents in the same was as Lia Thomas shed a huge spotlight on the issue in sport.

Whichever one it may be the crucial point that everyone is missing is that children/young adults are being used as unwilling participants to push one side or the other. Where is the outrage for that? Because that is abhorrent.

It's a difficult one for the school to rule on. They can't say 'no prosthetic breasts' as some women (including transwomen) might want or need to wear prosthetic breasts simply to appear 'normal'. So then you get into awkwardness and subjectivity about acceptable 'size' of prosthetic breasts; and this again is dependent on proportion - 38 JJJ will look very different on a woman who's a size 8 than a woman who is a size 20.

But I stand by my point that there is a lot of hate for transwomen on mumsnet. Surely you see that?

No. What makes you call it hate? Recognising that biological sex is real and important is not hate. Expecting safeguarding for women and children to be respected is not hate. Refusing to accept the lie that people can change sex is not hate.

@amoobaa

Yes, the erosion of women isn’t ok.

It's a fucking hell of a lot worse than not ok

But I stand by my point that there is a lot of hate for transwomen on mumsnet. Surely you see that?

No, I don't see that. I wouldn't even describe it as hate, there is a hell of a lot of anger against those TRAs and their submissive, simpering allies, the majority of whom aren't even trans who are pushing the Gender Ideology Agenda, determined to close down women who speak about it and determined to remove all rights and safeguards from women and children. That also includes Government Institutions, Publicly funded bodies that are supposed to serve ALL members of the public equally and private businesses whose raison d'etre is selling products and services NOT preaching and lecturing their customers.

just because I think transwomen are generally being discriminated against, doesn’t mean I don’t understand the other issues going on nor does it mean I think they are less important.

How are they being discriminated against? They have the same rights as everyone else plus some additional rights that no-one else has. The mention of the word transwoman and publicly funded bodies and private businesses can't prostrate themselves fast enough to accommodate them.

Your black and white thinking isn’t going to help. I know it’s hard to hold multiple complex perspectives in mind but if we want to make progress, surely it’s worth the effort and time?

Don't be so bloody patronising. What black and white thinking? The fact that no-one can change sex perhaps? What progress do you have in mind?

I’m painfully aware of the patriarchy and the many threats to women’s lives.

The Gender Ideology Agenda/Trans Rights Agenda is patriarchy and misogyny on crack.

What on earth makes you think I’m not concerned about that?

I don't know, are you?

I’m simply saying that the way these posts tend to go, is a lot of hate is expressed towards all transwomen.

Covered in response to the same point above.

Also, if you care so much then share your views. I’m here to learn. There’s no need to accuse me of shutting down a conversation.

We do share our views, are you listening and learning?

I’m trying to make it more intelligent, not shut it down.

Again stop being so bloody patronising, you clearly have no idea of the intelligence and qualifications of the many, many, women on FWR S&G who speak out on this topic.

If he is self ID and using women’s spaces then yes he is undermining women. If he is making a point about the ridiculousness of self ID etc then would that be in support of women? But then it’s not helpful to people with genuine gender issues. The whole thing is just a mess.

The reason there's little talk of transmen is because transwomen frequently act like the entitled male pricks that they are and transmen don't.

If both groups were actually the sex they think they are/want to be then the behaviour would be reversed - but it isn't. To me it's one of the clearest reasons why TW are not W.