That this looks like a stunt to undermine trans issues

[TempName01]

Article in the Daily Mail, not sure if I should link to it…

A Canadian teacher in transition to female is pictured with enormous prosthetic breasts which they wear as part of their gender identity. When I saw the article I thought it must be a stunt against transgender people and trying to ridicule men transitioning to female. If they actually want to dress that way then to me, it looks like they are fetishising rather than genuinely transgender.

I am usually all for dressing how ever you want but it just looks so inappropriate, AIBU?

You did say women should be doing more. You wanted us to come up with ways to protect trans people and protect their rights.

The reason we are divided is because one side wants to take our rights. GC women DID NOT create the divide. I can gaurentee if TRAs were saying ‘we understand sex and gender are different. We want women to keep their spaces but would like to have our own’ the vast majority of women would have supported that. Women, as a whole, are great at supporting groups who want a safe space.

You want women to enter a consultation on what they suggest for trans people. Why would women need to put in the work, to decide what a group should get when we are busy having to protect our spaces from those people.

I understand you say you want to learn. But ‘you are all spreading hate’ is not how someone who wants to learn, approaches a situation. If you want to learn, ask questions. Read what people are actually saying. Understand the consequences of the things you are saying and putting on here when wanting to learn.

I appreciate your sentiment regarding my dd. But again, it’s difficult to feel it’s genuine when you are posting that some lesbians don’t mind having sex with men. It’s that exact message that is causing her harm. Lesbians do not have sex with biological males. Because lesbian is same sex attracted. The term lesbian is nothing to do with gender.

I do hope you are genuine and want to learn, but I really think you need to think about how you approach things. You can’t expect to tell people they are hateful and start telling them what they should do and how they should deal with something, when you know very little about what’s been going on and what is going on.

Amooobaa, go spend some time on the sex and gender board in feminism.

@amoobaa Not all transwomen have penises!

95-97% of transwomen retain their penis and testicles. Most don't have the op, due to costs alone, which can be 100-200 thousand, and not many have that kind of money. So your chances of coming across a transwoman who has actually had the op are very, very, very slim. Which is why we want to retain our spaces.

@Tiani4 There is no need for that for clarity. For clarity;
woman or trans woman,
man or trans man
is all that is needed. If you say woman we all know you mean biological woman. Or, you could say biological woman I guess.

So what exactly is your issue with my views?

That you have falsely accused us of hate.

If you share similar views as us, then WHY are you saying there is hate on this site/thread? You contradict yourself, and have not once shown even any actual examples of dislike on here, let alone hate.

I find the term 'natal men' useful, often adding "regardless of gender identity, presentation and performance".

@amoobaa The intersex false irrelevance is brought up, and debunked, so many times it's exhausting. Even intersex people are either male or female, and a DNA test will show either XX or XY (female or male) chromosomes. Intersex has absolutely nothing, remotely, what so ever, to do with the issue of transgender.

And you've been lied to. There is no such thing as 'womens brain' or 'mans brain'. Those 'studies' you read are lies. Junk science.
theconversation.com/you-dont-have-a-male-or-female-brain-the-more-brains-scientists-study-the-weaker-the-evidence-for-sex-differences-158005

@amoobaa For the eleventyth time, there is no hate. There isn't even dislike, let alone hate. How many times do we have to tell you? We DON'T hate anyone. And you have failed to even post one example of dislike, let alone hate. Please stop lying about us. Please stop gaslighting us.

@amoobaa But yes, I find it hateful to lump transwomen in the same box as sexual offenders.

Good thing then, that no one here is doing that, isn't it?

Btw, when we talk about transwomen and offences, it's because we don't see a difference between transwomen and men. They are one and the same. And men, are 98% of the time sexual offenders. Whether they identify as a their biological male selves or not. A transwoman is a man. The issue is, you may see them as women. We don't. We see them as men. We don't recognise the existence of men turning into women. We see them as men. Not transwomen. So it's more 'menphobic' than transphobic.

@amoobaa The transwomen you are describing are at risk of harm from men.

There is absolutely zero evidence that transwomen are at risk of harm from men. Zero. In fact, on twitter men have said that they've seen and heard of transwomen in the male toilets and other men don't do or say anything. They're left to get on with it. There might be a wry smirk here and there, but no threats, no danger. Many, many other men including gay men and 2 transwomen I follow have said the same. There is no risk to transwomen in male facilities. The 2 transwomen I follow said they feel safe in male facilities and have never been accosted. That transwomen are at risk from men is a load of bullshit and a lie created to allow them access to womens facilities.

For the eleventyth time, there is no hate. There isn't even dislike, let alone hate. How many times do we have to tell you? We DON'T hate anyone. And you have failed to even post one example of dislike, let alone hate. Please stop lying about us. Please stop gaslighting us.

I have to disagree. I hate the angry, aggressive trans woman who years ago insisted on attending local women-only events despite being asked not to and who tried to hug women who went near him. He often had an erection. A lot of women fled, including the minority ethnic women who couldn't be in the company of men. He ended up causing the breakdown of a small organisation that had done a lot of good for a wide range of women in need of support since the 80s.

I hate the menacing man in women's clothing and make-up who turned up with his silent wife at a long-established monthly lesbian group held in a local bookshop cafe. It was a group that had welcomed dozens of newly-out and nervous young and older women and had enabled strong friendship groups. This man insisted that he and his wife were lesbians. When the lesbians said no, they didn't think either of them was a lesbian and asked them to leave he told the woman who ran the place that she was hosting a transphobic hate group and she banned us — not because she thought we were transphobic but because she couldn't afford for her business to get a bad name.

I feel contempt for one of our local transwomen, a narcissistic father-of-three who gaslit his wife for years and now preys on vulnerable lesbians, some of them with known MH issues. He pops up occasionally being interviewed because of his EDI work and it's all me, me, me, poor thing, thought about suicide, agony of being male... His abandoned wife and family are never mentioned.

I feel contempt for my friend Sal's boyfriend who mucked her about for years, forced her to go to the Beaumont Society's events for wives, dressed up in her clothing, criticised her make-up and hair and fashion sense and then in his own words became a better woman than she was. The last time I saw him he was wearing a cheap ginger wig and wearing a crop top and plastic mini-skirt and hanging out in a Soho gay bar, glowering at women.

There's a lot of homophobia and misogyny in some parts of the trans community and I won't pretend otherwise.

I think we're entitled to hate that kind of behaviour Patti. Although I'm sure somebody will be along any moment to tut disapprovingly at us.

And almost as many have not gone through or even started hormone therapy. Most men who identify as transwomen simply adhere to some level of decorative stereotypes such as hair style, jewelry and clothing.

I’m here to learn, so thank fuck @vestofabsurdity is engaging in a meaningful conversation. Providing information, despite it not being a personal responsibility, helping me to learn.

ah @amoobaa i get your game. Keep us talking while you spout piffle. You made a claim that you can't back up (that we are making hateful comments). You provided a list of comments, none of which are remotely hateful.
You keep coming back with badly "thought out" statements while admitting you don't know much (we know, we can see the evidence) and then accuse us of not engaging in good faith?

Cop on, mate. You're being daft.

@Brefugee yeah. It is pretty transparent. It’s almost like they don’t think we’ve seen it many many times before lol

I'm staggered by the arrogance of telling us we must "be better" we must solve the issue of where TW should go (or fit in society) then come out with the wide-eyed guff about "i'm just learning"

'course you are, love.

Indeed. I miss the old ploppers at least they were funny and tried to be original. .

but this thread has taught me one thing, and that is what is going on with that Canadian teacher (apparently) which makes the whole thing make so much more sense.

And watching the "self ID / TWAW" crew denying that she's a woman, is giving me much occasion for mirth.

You might not be wrong. But it is proof that we are so scared to talk about this issue and fairly critique it that they can practically (and sometimes do) get away with murder!

Actually I hope this keeps happening and I hope it blows up in the media... OFTEN. It needs to. We need others to realize how ridiculous it is. Trans identifying males have male privilege whether they like it or not. And they are completely capable of misogyny.

Saying so plainly is not effective so the only way to communicate it is to show them it's ridiculous.

In order to force others to put in healthy boundaries is for us to fight fire with fire. Embrace the ideology but push it to its most insane limits.

Don't reject pronouns. Embrace them! But pick the most awkward but believable ones. Make everyone uncomfortable and stutter over ze zem.

Tell them you identity as something really weird and enforce it.

If you're feeling really bold walk around with a strap on in your pants and tell them it's part of your identity and then get really offended when others stare and tell them you're normalizing the bulge.