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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

943 replies

Upthebracket22 · 10/09/2022 07:19

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

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DenholmElliot1 · 10/09/2022 07:23

That's a great story but you,ve left out half of it, the important half.

Swingsarefun · 10/09/2022 07:23

i don’t mean to be rude but you just sound like the worst of the Scottish nationalists we get around here. Yada yada yada. Get the chip off your shoulders. Stand up straight. Stop whining. You’re in the UK now. This is a good thing. They country is much richer for it, has more tools to alleviate poverty because of it. This doesn’t eradicate your Welsh history.

backwhiteandredallover · 10/09/2022 07:24

Thank you. I feel the same way as you.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 10/09/2022 07:24

POPFY

Upthebracket22 · 10/09/2022 07:24

@Swingsarefun wales is one of the poorest countries in Europe. We are in no way better off for being governed by Westminster thanks

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RichardsGear · 10/09/2022 07:25

Get rid of all of it, not just the PoW part.

QuebecBagnet · 10/09/2022 07:25

I agree with you. Maybe from the royal family’s point of view they think they are being nice and inclusive. They think the welsh should see this as an honour. But have no insight into how many think. Too late now, they’ve done it again.

RichardsGear · 10/09/2022 07:25

DenholmElliot1 · 10/09/2022 07:23

That's a great story but you,ve left out half of it, the important half.

Which is?

HairyToity · 10/09/2022 07:28

I agree. Personally I'd like to abolish the monarchy.

Fivemoreminutesinbed · 10/09/2022 07:29

Also don't forget at the time of the 13th century the Royal family was more French than English (we were all serfs) so maybe don't blame us English for it? 🤷‍♀️

BillLius · 10/09/2022 07:30

You think Wales has it bad? You should try being Cornish.

HappyHappyHermit · 10/09/2022 07:30

I'm happy about it.

Upthebracket22 · 10/09/2022 07:30

@Fivemoreminutesinbed well even more reason for it not to exist then! Why continue with the role of Prince of Wales if that’s that case. Right the historical wrong. We aren’t serfs to be placated- we are a country.

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QuebecBagnet · 10/09/2022 07:31

Fivemoreminutesinbed · 10/09/2022 07:29

Also don't forget at the time of the 13th century the Royal family was more French than English (we were all serfs) so maybe don't blame us English for it? 🤷‍♀️

Well that’s a whole different argument about how the RF still aren’t English. 😁

Legrandsophie · 10/09/2022 07:31

YABU- you’ve cherry picked bits of Welsh history to suit yourself. The Llywelyn was prince of Gwynedd. He and his family subjugated the other kingdoms of Wales and very briefly United them into one country. Cornwall is a much older and better established kingdom than Wales and probably has more the moan about in terms of subjugation.

If we are talking about the conquest made by Edward the First then he was a Norman. The Norman line died out when the last Plantagenet heir died in the tower- Edward Earl of Warwick.

King Charles is a direct descendant of a Welsh man- Owen Tudor.

Nationalism is a divisive disease that can only lead to bigotry and ignorance.

oxydant · 10/09/2022 07:31

BillLius · 10/09/2022 07:30

You think Wales has it bad? You should try being Cornish.

You think Cornwall has it bad, you should try being Kentish

Upthebracket22 · 10/09/2022 07:31

@BillLius Totally get it! Very similar issues

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Legrandsophie · 10/09/2022 07:32

You think Cornwall had it bad, try being from Northumberland. Read up about ‘the harrowing of the north’.

YellowTreeHouse · 10/09/2022 07:33

Oh don’t be so silly. You can find it as offensive as you want, just as Bob down the road can find the sky being blue offensive 🙄 It doesn’t mean anything.

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 10/09/2022 07:33

I was shocked to learn some of Welsh history and the English oppression of the Welsh and Welsh language. I can't believe it's not taught in schools.

I read it somewhere that England practiced colonialism on Wales, Cornwall, Scotland and Ireland before it went to do it overseas.

Fivemoreminutesinbed · 10/09/2022 07:34

Legrandsophie · 10/09/2022 07:32

You think Cornwall had it bad, try being from Northumberland. Read up about ‘the harrowing of the north’.

It is harrying but yes it was pure genocide.

Upthebracket22 · 10/09/2022 07:34

@YellowTreeHouse exactly the kind of condescending bollocks the Welsh have to put up with ALL the time

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W0tnow · 10/09/2022 07:35

Without being disrespectful to the late Queen personally, titles like ‘King’, ‘Queen’ ‘Prince of Wales’ are bestowed on people purely because they were lucky (or unlucky) enough to be born within that lineage. The entire custom is kind of ridiculous in modern times. I mean can you imagine if Andrew was the first born and was now king?

HighDudgeonAtBerks · 10/09/2022 07:36

I agree Op. Amser newid. It’s not their title to bestow and it stirs more resentment. Do the gracious thing, William and turn it down.

Michael Sheen for first Prime Minister of Wales!

Upthebracket22 · 10/09/2022 07:36

@W0tnow exactly! Hereditary monarchy is seriously questionable

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