To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Whose rulers were Norman and who spoke Norman French. The Anglo Saxons were very much the under class so less of the anti English.

We’re back on the ‘who’s the biggest historical victim’ bandwagon again.

My point is that you’ll find offence in anything when you have a chip on your shoulder.

It doesn’t matter your background, history, race, sexuality etc. Taking offence at a non-issue isn’t a Welsh or a you thing, everyone does it based on their own bias.

@RudsyFarmer but these kind of events stir up historical resentments. We are having to sit through ridiculous historical rituals as a result of an outdated hereditary monarchy and then get told to effectively ‘shut up peasants’ when we question it!

@Fivemoreminutesinbed

Sorry, trying to type and open yoghurts for small children.

The point is that the Normans did horrific things to every nation of Britain. How far back do we go to dredge up old grudges. Should we be writing to Rome to demand reparations for the burning of the sacred groves of Anglesey?

If find it odd that people see Welsh independence on the same level as Scotland which was a unified country for centuries and had it’s own government and royal family and was a separate kingdom for the entire of history up to James VI becoming James I. Wales never really had that.

King Charles is a direct descendant of a Welsh man- Owen Tudor

Most people are direct descendants of people who lived a long time ago.

I bet you don't have to go too far back in family trees to find common relatives with Charles.

@YellowTreeHouse its not a non issue to me as a Welsh person. It’s not a chip on my shoulder. It’s a historical wrong that needs putting right. Wales is a nation in its own right - not a suburb or England.

Op are you ignoring or getting to @Legrandsophie s post?

I loathe nationalism as much as I loathe the concept of a hereditary monarchy

Well - we have Andrew as the Duke of York.

We can't get rid of him

Just interested if you would say the same thing to a colonised nation whose population was not predominantly White?

The plantagenets were succeeded by the Tudors in 1285, so they lasted very little time beyond the Welsh princes, and of course the Normans who handed down the crown had never been English at all. The Tudors were half French with a range of other nationalities thrown in across the years, The Stuarts were Scottish, the Hanoverians - can you guess? And then again there's the mix of Saxe-Coburg and Windsors, largely German in origin with some Russian. The royal family are only English in that recent generations have been born here with George, Charles and William all marrying English women.

If you prefer a Republican state, then that's reasonable and you should sign petitions accordingly. Getting fussy about "Prince of Wales" based on nationality of recent births simply makes no sense, because it has nothing at all to do with the titles.

if your issue is Princess Catherine having a suspected illegitimate Plantagenet ancestor, then that would be a more interesting route to bring annoyed, but the wildly incorrect "the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen" would suggest otherwise. Read up a bit more and clarify what exactly you want to be angry about.

She’s pretending it isn’t there because it doesn’t go with her offended victim narrative.

Oh wow!

What a dreadful post. It is attitudes like yours that are pushing more people to want to break up the union. Your ignorance and rudeness are astounding.

I'm English and would be embarrassed to be associated with this attitude.

Well I don't mind per se, but given there's a suggestion in my blood line to Welsh royalty I would like this opportunity to finally be a Welsh princess 😉😁

I wonder how many people would be telling a black person to stop whining about slavery because it happened centuries ago, or to be glad that their country is "much richer" for it?

Fwiiw, it isn't the English to blame (and the OP didn't say they were - they described the PoW as an English Price, which is accurate). It is the prolonging of an anachronistic institution representing power, privilege, colonialism. It is time, as in much of the rest of Europe, that the royal family were consigned to the scrap heap. It always makes me laugh when people are shocked by the scandals of the royal family, such as men cheating on their wife or sleeping with underage girls. Really? Have you seen their family history? None of these things are "out of character" with an institution that has acted in such ways forever.

The idea of a President may not do much to combat power and privilege, but at least they represent a democratic process, they can be held accountable and they can be got rid of.

@YellowTreeHouse not at all. It’s nothing to do with an ‘offended victim’ narrative at all. Wales is a devolved nation (and hopefully in the future an independent one) - we have no need of an English prince

And the current lot are German.

Good luck funding yourself 😂

All of those who say that Wales is all the better for being in the union, please come and live here for a few years. The only Union Wales has benefited from recently is the European Union. And now we've left, Welsh revenues for economic development have been slashed.

@YellowTreeHouse yawn. Predictable comment. Would you say that to every other small nation. Does Iceland get quizzed on how it would fund itself as an independent nation? I don’t think so. The gaslighting of wales ‘you’d never stand on your own feet’ is thankfully something we are moving past.

We’re back on the ‘who’s the biggest historical victim’ bandwagon again.

And how very boring it all is.

The only reason you get you vent your spleen on this, on a large platform, is because the internet exists. Since civilisation began there has been fighting over territory. Repatriations are well deserved in some cases but cannot be delivered to all. I feel we are in an era where victimhood has been weaponised and I’m tired of it.

Nothing good has never ever come out of a nationalism, ever. Only dark things lie that route, horrible ones that stain history books with the amount of blood that they spill. To achieve nothing. Just to add more reasons for people to be "offended" centuries down the line.

Being proud of your nation and its people, the beautiful green hills, all day long.
Nationalism, no thanks.

I see independence as unlikely to be honest.