To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

I totally agree with you. Ditto the Duke of Edinburgh. I think a lot of English people do not know their history. Wales, Scotland and Ireland are treated like second class satellite regions, with very little of the benefits that the south of England has, yet any talk of independence is poo pooed.

I was taught that the reason that there is a union bw England and Scotland is because the Scottish King took the English throne. What were you taught?

@Untitledsquatboulder You mean James, who was made king as his mother Mary Queen of Scots was deposed for being catholic? And then beheaded. Yup

It’s hardly likely that a broadly socialist wales with a population of 3 million is likely to go down the Jack boot, flag waving route. Welsh independence is simply about the right to make our own decisions about our own country. I was a soldier, I swore oaths to the queen and I’ve met King Charles when he was prince Charles. I like the guy. I think he cares but as much as it upsets him, I’d drop him in a heartbeat.

No one says independence would be easy. Ireland suffered years of poverty but it makes its own way in the world now and Wales would do the same.

No. They're just the same.

Ireland struggled for decades, it had to become a tax haven to get to where it is today. Would Wales really offer a 12% corporation tax rate?

She wasn't deposed by the English

The whole royal family needs getting rid of, together with inherited titles. The prince of Wales is just a title and doesn't have any particular role in Wales, surely?
I'm of mixed heritage so don't really see the point of independence (didn't vote for Brexit either) although I do think that Welsh culture is something special.
The Westminster government has been terrible for northern England too. I live near some of the most deprived areas in Europe. Our whole country is in a depressing state. It's weird that British people are so nationalist. They moan constantly about all the problems of living in Britain but still somehow think it's better than anywhere else

You have far more autonomy than those in the North or Midlands of England who are treated with just as much distain as the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish by the Westminster elite.

Worrying about royal titles that are just for show anyway is utterly pointless. The fight is to wrestle power away from the Eton boys in Westminster. At least you have the Senedd in Wales, all we get is the suggestion of super county councils that will put more power in the hands of regional Tories, rather than true devolution.

Not just the Midlands and North. Having moved about quite a bit, it's the same in many southern areas too. Basically, if you don't live in the Home Counties or a notably prosperous town.

I don't think Westminster, Holyrood, Senedd , NI assembly give a stuff about most of us. This has trickled down to our councils. Greed is good. Corruption rife. They're dismantling all our cultures to create something quite different imo.

I did say it wouldn’t be easy but we do have some advantages that Ireland didn’t have. We’re a net exporter of water, power and food. I read somewhere that Wales is the third largest exporter of green electricity on the planet. We essentially supply a large part of the northwest and central England with water. We are net exporter of food largely because we are an agricultural economy.

Bear in mind, the power/water companies don’t pay their taxes directly to the Welsh government, any benefit we received is filtered through Westminster and can be withdrawn.

A further issue is we pay for national infrastructure projects that do not benefit us. Wales’ share of HS2 comes in at £5billion, we pay a similar proportion for cross rail, trident, parliamentary refurbishment that give little or no direct benefit to Wales.

The point is very simple. We have had policies, costs and governance imposed on us by a government we would never elect and seems to see us as an afterthought.

It might be painful but it might be time to go through the pain to decide our destiny.

You're not seriously suggesting that Wales can be the world leader in water, are you?

Food exports won't get you far, not when the WAG are encouraging the selling off of farmland for forestry at a considerable rate.

HS2 certainly benefits those of us in North Wales.

The present Senedd are like ferrets in a sack plaid impatient with labour for not being radical enough. Labour not supporting farming. Arguing about second homes, they're nibbling at the edges to avoid more serious concerns.

We seem to be in limbo

What I’m saying is that we have advantages that Ireland didn’t have. We are self sufficient in water, power and food. We have exportable commodities. We would not have to pay for things that don’t particularly benefit us. HS2 knocks an hour off the travel time to Manchester and at that point you have to catch a second train that travels at snails pace to north wales. So essentially you might just as well get on the London to Holyhead train because it won’t make much difference to your travel time.

Hate the English much? Get a life

Ireland exports a huge amount of food that puts us to shame

It's tax break for companies make huge sums for them. They're more tech savvy than us, more travelled, certainly better known on the world stage than us.

www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-10-exports/

On the other hand standing your ground and taking back power is usually a pretty good way to empower yourself. And this is one possible way.