To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Yes I appreciate that. I was questioning your use of "how would Iceland fund itself". I thought there was a recent colonisation of Iceland I'd missed.

Well, Wales is part of the UK currently, and the monarch is the head of state. So whatever he's called, William will have the same position, or you might say duty/responsibility to serve Wales and the other countries of the Kingdom. If the people of Wales don't want this service anymore they would need to go for independence.

There were great wrongs done in the distant and not so distant past in many places on planet earth, but I don't think it's useful to anyone to keep on stoking anger about it or seeing everything through that lens, unless there are living people still affected by it. It's divisive.

No, we only have British Princes since the Sovereign and the family has represented the United Kingdom since the Union Of The Crowns.

The Union Jack is a Royal flag named after King James I and IV who styled himself the Unionist King. And the first one of our country. The Jack part is a shortening of Jacobus which means James.

Wales is a British nation and the oldest British nation since they called themselves Pritani and Pritish which gave us the current forms.

Lovely piece of victim blaming

I'm struggling to see how OP is a victim of anything. Beyond identifying as one.

“There is an economic aspect here too - by and large, people do not want a decline in their living standards which independence would bring. Only the south-east of England more than pays its way with the rest of the UK being subsidised by it”

@DownNative Wales is the poorest country in Europe. Have a look at what Thatcher did by selling off our Water. Wales is KEPT poor by Westminster.

i would argue (and this position has been investigated multiple time by economists in wales) that the Welsh standard of living would improve by being out of the union. Scotland too.

Can you tell me how Wales would support itself economically though, as a separate country?
The general avoidance of realistic answers to this crucial question, ( a la SNP)speaks volumes. Expecting England and NI to fund your dangerous Nationalist wishes is a no go.

I’ve learned loads on this thread, can anyone recommend some easy to read / digest books or TV series about the history of the UK?

@DownNative Wales isn’t even respresented in the bloody union flag either.

Calling himself 'Llywelyn the Last' was probably sending out the wrong message.

Division, is what they thrive on; it is their bread and butter.

I don't blame Wales for wanting independence. Or the Scottish people either.
However, why wasn't all this brought up years ago ? The King was the Prince of Wales for years and years, if this was so important people could have spoken out decades ago?
Plus it appears that people are being blamed in England for all these things that happened centuries ago, which is a little unfair really however horrific it was black then.
Good luck with the independence rally , I hope you fair better then Scotland did who voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 and are struggling to get another one now.

Grab a history book and find one applicable realistic similarity between India and Jamaica at the time they recovered their country and Wales within the UK TODAY.
Then you can tell me.

The South East of England more than pays its way. To itself. In its own self interests. Which is why so much investment takes place in the SE.

Have you tried driving on a motorway through North Wales? Oh that's right because we don't have one. The A55 is a main huelage route to Ireland and is only 2 lanes for most of it.

And people in Wales did vote for Brexti. Because Wales has large areas of low economic attainment and high immigration. Which as MN likes to point out are the markers of Brexit Voters. I did not vote Brexit BTW.

On holiday recently, we went through Luxembourg,

They seemed to be doing well.

645,000 people

£114,000 GDP per capita

Well if it was a simple shape then you might have a point, but how were they meant to put a frickin dragon on the Union flag?

The English didn't really want James I either.

And the current lot are German.
See, this rhetoric really bothers me. The current lot's ancestor George I came from Germany in 1714. After 300 years they're British. Are British people born here whose parents came over on Windrush or from China in the 1950s not British? Myself, I know they are but I wonder if people who say that about the Windsors think so?

As for there being a new PoW, I'm a republican at heart and don't like the idea of kings at all but the Welsh half of my family all seem delighted, I have no idea why because imo lazy William represents the worst of English and British royalty and is the current embodiment of all those useless and forgettable kings (to be in this case) we've put up with throughout history. Welsh people aren't a monolith.

Devolved doesn't mean we don't need a Prince, until we're independent (which I'd like too!) we still need to 'be' something. Like it or not, Britain is still ruled by a monarchy so if we're not an independent country and stop being a principality it's even easier just to see us as part of England. Until we get proper independence the Prince issue seems like a red herring,and William is better than most of them.

Pay a lot of tax though.

Do you say the same thing to Jamaica and Barbados?

Well, all of the UK originally belonged to the Celts...

@MadamTrelawney I'm Irish and I wasn't impressed by her. But I wasn't in the slightest bit interested in her visit. The British royal family are entirely irrelevant to most Irish people thank goodness. But this thread is fascinating reading.