To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Thankyou

You are in the unreasonable section. I am not going to shower you with compliments and stroke your brow. I totally disagree with you. Reminder to myself to push the YABU unreasonable button. In contrast to your bitterness, how lovely it was to see two POC on BBC, yesterday praising the Queen for what she had brought them.

Agreed OP. Time for this whole family to go. End monarchy

You’ve lost me at independent nation. I really cannot understand why Scotland and Wales would want to make themselves poorer when so much governance is devolved. It’s best of both worlds at the moment. I say that as a Scot.

Why didn't
the Welsh and the Scots fight a bit more for some higher levies on the coal they produced? I agree the Scots could clean up with North Sea oil too ; maybe it is time for change all round !
If people want independence, they should be given a choice to do so.

However, why wasn't all this brought up years ago ? The King was the Prince of Wales for years and years, if this was so important people could have spoken out decades ago?

This isn't the first time people have objected to it, not by a long way.

I haven't actually. I will look it up. Yes there was. Elmet in Yorkshire is one actually. I was a bit bemused when a Welsh person thought Boudicca was Welsh as if only Wales had Celts.

This is a good book too for anyone interested in Welsh history

All of those who say that Wales is all the better for being in the union, please come and live here for a few years

Try not voting left-wing and who knows...things may improve

Opinion pieces from biased sources are not proof.

Incorrect.

Having a Prince Of Wales doesn't make Wales a Principality.

It would if the Prince Of Wales actually had an active role in governing Wales and the position affords no such power.

A Principality requires a Prince to govern. Hence, Monaco is a Principality whereas Wales hasn't actually been one since 1566!

😂

The miners were working people, they were not treated well by the Coal Boards. They did hard, back breaking, dangerous work, they breathed in coal dust and they died from it (which is why I never knew my grandfather). When they got ill their families were treated shamefully; the whole health and safety issue was appalling; many men died underground; and then there was Aberfan.

Hence, eventually, the Unions. But before that, the Coal Boards had all the power and leverage and they treated the workers as badly as they could get away with, while the Industrial Revolution was fueled by the miners' work.

I still haven't seen a single coherent argument for how an independent wales will be funded?

Naming small independent countries that do well economically isn't evidence. The size/population hasn't got much to do with it- it's a question of exports and generation of wealth. Iceland has natural resources and is a financial centre with lots of tourism. Luxembourg is a major centre for private banking.

What industries does wales have? Salt? Portmeirion? Lamb? Fair bit of tourism I should think 🤔 is that enough to cover costs and the huge welfare bill?

FWIW I think that nations should be granted independence if that's what they want. Less of a tax burden on us villainous English that way 😉

Also the monarchy should be dismantled. Forget a PoW, we don't need a bloody king!!

Wales won’t cope because it’s had too many decades of sitting on its arse waiting for handouts from either Westminster, Senedd or Europe.

The lack of ambition I see on a daily basis here in the Valleys communities is astonishing, and is getting worse. And please don’t say that it’s ’because Thatcher closed the mines’ because that was 35 years ago and communities have had a generation to regroup and move on now, with shedloads of funding.

Those with resilience, self-respect and a bit of intelligent ambition have done so very successfully, from the myriad beauty salons and dog walking services to the more scientifically technical businesses. All are welcome. The fact that Wales voted to leave Europe just shows how closed (and dull) minds are here. Europe helped to fund regeneration projects of all sizes.

Don’t get me started on the Senedd. This was a fantastic opportunity for real change (and on the face of it we are supported better socially), but they just can’t do it. Too many QUANGOS still and top slicing of budgets which means nobody really benefits (e.g. schools get funded less per pupil but students get reductions in fees). It’s incredibly frustrating. Good intentions but incompetent execution.

God the patronising on this thread is exactly the reason why the independence movement in Wales is growing so rapidly

Ooh thats interesting.

Well its really pointless then.

Thanks @Pawpatrolwereonaroll I’ve been doing research for a book set in post-Roman Britain for about two years. It is such a fascinating time in history.

i can really recommend the Max Adam’s books. They’ve really helped me understand just how national identities were formed.

Essentially, each area of Britain was a kingdom of its own at some point. And almost all of the original Arthurian legends come to us out of what is now considered Welsh myth.

People on here are saying the ‘English’ have subjugated them but I would say that the people now considered English (or Anglian) once you’ve removed all the old Brythonic kingdoms like Rhaged (Cumbria) and Cornwall, have been systematically robbed of their language and culture by Germanic and French invaders. We have no real mythology because it was deliberately wiped away by a combination of the invading the Romans, the Angles and Saxons and the Roman Catholic Church.

People with roots in Warwickshire and Worcestershire and Gloucestershire are just at Celtic as the Welsh. They just don’t know it.

😂Stop whining. You’re in the UK now. This is a good thing.
Did anyone else 'hear' these stern instructions to the tune of "you're in the army now, you're not behind a plow" ?

Wales is not richer for being controlled by Westminter @Swingsarefun.
In recent history - in fact, living memory - Westminster drowned our valleys, stole our water, creamed the profits from our industry & beat/humiliated schoolchildren for speaking Welsh - yup, even at break time, in their own playgrounds.

Plaid Cymru all the way. We have so much natural resource here that if we can take it back, we'd create a viable economy through renewable energy. And instead of being sat on by "the UK" aka England, we'd be back in partnership with the EU.

Try not voting left-wing and who knows...things may improve

😂

Selecting history to support your narrative OP

Mind you, I listened to my nain complaining about the English but never did much reading around about the History of Wales, I'm very grateful for these links.

I agree, @Upthebracket22 . But then, I'm Scottish. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

I have news for you OP. There are mines where works were treated terribly all
over the country. Have you ever been to Durham? The mining was so extensive in Gateshead, around Newcastle that they still get house subsidence. The whole area for miles and miles is nothing but pit villages. It wasn’t just Wales.

So, you've failed to evidence your exaggeration if Wales being the poorest part of Europe?

No surprise since I used Eurostat statistics to disprove your own claim!