To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Our GPs have been known to ask patients if they have private medical cover. DILs friend works for the Spire group in n Wales they're Rushed off their feet. Retirees are paying for hips, knees, rather than wait the years the NHS are saying because of the waiting lists. Our train service is slashed off season.

We've more important things to be concerned with than independence

Do you think that maybe being in charge of our own destiny might help us get the services we need? We have a £13 billion deficit in Wales. We supply cheap water to large parts of England with no taxable economic benefit other than a few jobs to Wales ditto for the green electricity we supply. We pay 13% of the UK’s bills. So that’s 13% of trident, hs2, the Elizabeth line, the refurbishment of parliament etc and we derive no economic benefit for any of them.

we pay 13% of the UK’s rail infrastructure budget and we get 5% spent in Wales.

All the arguments for Brexit(a terrible idea by the way) apply to Welsh and Scottish independence except for the fact that taking back control would allow us to rejoin if we decide.

Agreed. Scottish history wasn't even taught in schools until 15 years ago, English history was. Wonder why!

How would abolishing the title “Prince of Wales” make any difference economically or politically to Wales? Prince William has a string of titles already; and the Royal Family could probably just give him another title like Crown Prince if they wanted!

IMO, if the Welsh want independence, they need to get themselves heard at Westminster, not Buckingham Palace! That is a rabbit hole!

How would abolishing the title “Prince of Wales” make any difference economically or politically to Wales

Without wishing to be insensitive to Welsh people who feel strongly about this, titles have never been kept just for native nationals. You'd have to undo most of history to make it so!

The imposition of a monarchy reigning over us is an insult to all of us, not just the Welsh.

I'm Welsh. I like having a prince and princess.

No, am actually upset about my grandma being beaten at school just for speaking her mother tongue and being from one of the most economically ignored towns in the UK. Also the fact that we're from a country where there is so little respect for us systematically, someone from a different nation can name themselves 'Prince' of our country without having the courtesy to even consult our devolved parliament. But sorry to interrupt your important problems with our petty ones.

The state of the Welsh NHS is appalling in the north too. Ambulance wait time in my town, 'three hours even for emergencies'. My dad nearly died of an aneurysm earlier in the year that kept growing and we had to fight tooth and nail every day for four months to get him seen before it leaked and became fatal. They kept saying 'oh, waiting lists. We're short staffed and had to cancel'

The case for independence for me is less about 'let's focus on leeks, throwing knickers at Tom Jones and banner waving' or about hating the English and more about economics and the fact that I can't see how it could get any worse if we manage our own resources/set our own priorities. It worked for Iceland. We have a land rich in resources.

I agree @Siarabang The £5 billion we have to contribute towards the HS2 that doesn't even go through Wales would make a huge difference if spent on the transport infrastructure in Wales. Independence must be better than this.

The amount of money thrown at the Welsh language is completely disproportionate to it’s use and relevance in modern day wales.

A recent poll have shown the number of Welsh language speakers has fallen yet again!
Public services are in a worse state than England, and that’s saying something.
if money was used for the nhs and police instead of vanity projects by the WG, wales would be in a much better position!

Nationalism is a divisive disease that can only lead to bigotry and ignorance.

English nationalism is a divisive disease that has led to bigotry and ignorance.

Civic nationalism in Scotland and Wales aspires to creating better, fairer countries which look after their citizens.

HTH.

The Welsh Language isn't a "vanity project". Welsh language schools don't cost anymore than English language schools. Bilingual signs hardly cost any extra either. Obviously there's a cost to translating documents, but it's our language and we do have rights.

I understand why you find it offensive, OP. Imagine if there was an English "Prince of Northern Ireland".

I don’t think Nationalism is the answer and huge amounts of money is totally wasted on the Welsh Language and Welsh Language Schools in some areas where Welsh hasn’t been spoken since Norman times.

It used to cost peanuts to run Wales but now costs millions so front facing services suffer. Having said that the Welsh Government is more caring and socially responsible which is better but that doesn’t warrant changing things too much.

Is Wales really the poorest country in Europe? I'd have thought that places like Bosnia, Albania, Belarus etc are poorer?

Going down the route of being a victim will not lead to empowerment.

It just leads to a fake victim culture where you try to stand alongside genuinely oppressed groups and look ridiculous

Can someone please explain why Welsh language schools are seen as an extra cost? Children need educating, it doesn't cost anymore to educate some of them in Welsh medium schools.

Friend works in a Welsh medium school. Many books etc need to be translated that costs more. Children come from further afield so transport costs. I could go on

While I agree helpless victim mentalities are unhelpful, on the subject of being anti-oppression, not sure dictating which people can and can't talk about their lived experience serves that. People are always free not to listen if they don't think certain people's experiences should be prioritised.

The poverty in vast areas of Wales is fairly tangible if you look at the stats around unemployment and wages. Victimhood would be to say nothing and just accept it. The 'there's worse off people you know' argument while inevitably true of everything isn't a particularly helpful argument when people are struggling for even minimum wage work. It's like telling starving Irish people during the famine, 'well, that's nothing compared to the shit going down across the water'. It may well be true but they'll be no less malnourished.

To many Welsh people, its culture and language is very important because it's a symbol of still being here despite conquest and being ruled by somewhere else. Welsh was described in Westminster as 'barbaric' and its teaching was outlawed for many years to the extent that within just the last hundred years kids were systematically being beaten at school for speaking their first language. In my school years, Westminster decreed that parts of our history were not to be taught at all in case it incited nationalism.

Acts like the forced drowning of a Welsh village to provide water for Liverpool despite an almost unanimous vote against it by Welsh MPs does stick in people's psyche.

People asking for the Prince of Wales title to be revoked might seem petty but just like devolution, it's a symbolic act asking for Wales to have some say over its own autonomy, which is anything but victimhood. It's a passionate will to restore some sense of self determination for its own good.

I'm Welsh and I also like having a Prince and Princess but what I don't like that if the Duke and Duchess of Sussex are stripped of the Dukedom then they will be titled Prince and Princess Henry of Wales. If that happens I will be disgusted.

Where did you hear that from?

@justasking111 on Wikipedia under Titles, Styles he was originally called His Royal Highness Prince Henry of Wales. This was until he was given the Dukedom on marriage. He was known as Captain Harry Wales in the military. I'm hoping they will be Mountbatten-Windsor instead which is the surname of his children. Unless of course that will be a bone of contention for Windsor.

@justasking111 same as Prince Michael of Kent and his wife Princess Michael of Kent.

Translation of books also creates employment which benefits the economy.