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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

317 replies

Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 21:22

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

OP posts:
Palmtree9 · 30/08/2022 21:25

As a family of 2 teacher parents and 2 kids, I totally agree. Regardless of the cost, Dreading next sept when one goes to school and one to a childminder, with drop offs having to be done by 7:45 latest for either of us to get to work on time...

Flatfish123 · 30/08/2022 21:27

It’s the way they ask you - repeatedly - if you can be a parent helper on school trips etc. no. I have a job. Like last time you asked.

KangarooKenny · 30/08/2022 21:28

I agree, all primary age children should have access to 8am-6pm care at school.

OiFrogg · 30/08/2022 21:29
  1. Being picky, but I've never worked in a school that didn't finish at 3.30pm. I've honestly never come across a school that finishes at 3pm.
  1. You state at most schools one of the options is to attend a kids' club. So you're saying wrap around care is available? I don't really understand what you are suggesting that is different to this.
  1. In expecting schools to provide an ASC, it will come back on teachers whether it should or not. I not infrequently have to stay til 6pm because staff from our ASC are off sick or we can't get cover or whatever. Working 3.30pm til 6pm are not popular working hours. Schools are struggling to recruit for all roles.
  1. I do agree it's hard as a working parent, and part of the difficulty is cost. Two days at nursery (basically the 30 hours free allowance spread across the year) doesn't even allow me to work two teaching days without taking a significant amount of work home with me (work that'd be more easily done in school).
Apl · 30/08/2022 21:30

It’s a mess for sure. But I don’t think the solution is getting children to childcare by 7.45 and picking them up gone 6pm. Those are very unhealthy hours for a child 😥. School doesn’t need to change, the workplace does. The internet allows most jobs to be done somewhat flexibly.

What is needed is a legal right for most employees to not be required to be physically at work before 10 or after 4. Many jobs already have 10-4 as ‘core hours’ with some work to be done in evening after kids are home.

CaptainMerica · 30/08/2022 21:30

Yes, so many out of school clubs went bust during covid, even if you have the money, the option just isn't there for so many people.

sjxoxo · 30/08/2022 21:31

This will be inflammatory but a family with young children isn’t well designed for 2 working parents either. We could also say that 2 full time jobs aren’t well designed for small children! It’s the conundrum most parents face.. tough one and I agree things could be better designed for family life in this day & age

animalprintfree · 30/08/2022 21:32

8 til 6pm! Poor kids.

Muchtoomuchtodo · 30/08/2022 21:34

There are plenty of jobs that aren’t 9-5, Monday to Friday, sometimes hard decisions need to be made about who works where and when to accommodate your dc’s

Some schools are able to offer more than others, that can be a factor in which schools you apply for.

If your kids are primary aged they are young enough that you should have thought about this relatively recently when you planned to have a family.

childcare is tough in this country but this is nothing in new

Iamnotthe1 · 30/08/2022 21:34

The thing that needs editing here is how we approach working arrangements, not schooling. It's not good for a young child to be in breakfast club, school and then after school club, basically seeing their parents only for getting up and going to bed. However, at the moment, some parents have little choice. We should be making it easier for parents to be more present in their child's life during term time rather than making it the expectation that they'll be away from them.

jewishmum · 30/08/2022 21:36

I don't think it's in the child's psychological best interests to be without either parent for so long every day.

I do think that wages should be such that one working parent earns enough to provide for his/her family.

Discovereads · 30/08/2022 21:36

While I agree it is a problem, I don’t agree the solution is for young kids to be outside the home from 8am to 6pm Monday through Friday. That’s too long of a day for anyone, much less young children. I’d rather see a shift in FT employment to 30hr weeks (five 6hr days) with flexible start and stop times as many studies show we are most productive on such a schedule.

Thistleinthenight · 30/08/2022 21:36

True, but it is designed around the amount of schooling children can cope with, and which is anyway more hours than many other countries.

AppleKatie · 30/08/2022 21:38

I’ve never quite understood the angst about children being in childcare from 7.45-6pm ish… my DC have always done long days and thrived.

Good provision that allows them plenty of chill out and play time as well as decent food and caring staff is enough.

I agree that all schools should have this provision- it should be properly funded though. If the pay was decent for it there wouldn’t be a recruitment crisis.

Username917778 · 30/08/2022 21:39

I don't believe the answer is children spending more time in childcare/wraparound care but raising wages to a point where both parents don't have to work full time hours and can afford to work flexibly.

Meredusoleil · 30/08/2022 21:40

That is partly why my dh and I work opposite days to each other. 1 of us is always home to do the childcare!

arethereanyleftatall · 30/08/2022 21:44

The article talks of two 'working' parents. Not two 'full time working' parents. I only know of two couples who both worked full time ooh 9-5 jobs whilst their kids were in primary. Most families I know have one full time worker plus one part time worker.

Like others have said, it's not just about the parents being able to work, it would also be a not very pleasant day for children.

BotterMon · 30/08/2022 21:46

This is common in Europe - 8am to 6pm is the norm or even earlier at the majority of schools. Funny that those kids turn out absolutely fine!

The UK is massively behind a lot of other countries in terms of working parent support whether it be the hours of childcare available and/or the cost.

LadyLapsang · 30/08/2022 21:47

Families and the labour market, UK: 2021, is the latest statistical release on this subject, published last month. Interesting reading.

Loopyloopy · 30/08/2022 21:48

We need wrap around care for those who want it, yes, but what we really need is a society where both parents aren't forced to work full time in order to make ends meet. We can make food, clothes, buildings, and even energy with a fraction of the manpower than in any time in history. There's no physical need for all this labour. We just need to make the economics work.

Horcruxe · 30/08/2022 21:48

Username917778 · 30/08/2022 21:39

I don't believe the answer is children spending more time in childcare/wraparound care but raising wages to a point where both parents don't have to work full time hours and can afford to work flexibly.

Agree.

The problem is, the fact it now takes two full time wages to run a family household.

Itrainedtoday · 30/08/2022 21:51

Agree, I'm desperately searching for jobs I can do between 9-3 for when my dd starts school somehow. I’m not dropping her from 8-6 pm 🥲

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 30/08/2022 21:51

OiFrogg · 30/08/2022 21:29

  1. Being picky, but I've never worked in a school that didn't finish at 3.30pm. I've honestly never come across a school that finishes at 3pm.
  1. You state at most schools one of the options is to attend a kids' club. So you're saying wrap around care is available? I don't really understand what you are suggesting that is different to this.
  1. In expecting schools to provide an ASC, it will come back on teachers whether it should or not. I not infrequently have to stay til 6pm because staff from our ASC are off sick or we can't get cover or whatever. Working 3.30pm til 6pm are not popular working hours. Schools are struggling to recruit for all roles.
  1. I do agree it's hard as a working parent, and part of the difficulty is cost. Two days at nursery (basically the 30 hours free allowance spread across the year) doesn't even allow me to work two teaching days without taking a significant amount of work home with me (work that'd be more easily done in school).

I'm in the U.K, in the midlands and at DDs primary school reception finishes at 2.50pm and all years after that finish at 3pm. Afterschool club is a 2 Hr provision, so reception kids have to be collected by 2.50pm and all others by 5pm. There were no childminders doing school pickup when my DD started either.

YelloCar · 30/08/2022 21:51

Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents
No, they’re designed for the children.

MissAmbrosia · 30/08/2022 21:52

In Belgium this is available - 7.30 to 18.00 or 18.30 is standard in most state schools. It is never hosted by teachers - separate staff cover breakfast, lunchtime, evening. Kids cope perfectly well with this in my experience. Mine always played outside with her friends or did some activity or other til i picked her up - normally 5/5.30. Without trying to sound goady or anything, I am always slightly surprised that on MN all UK 5 year olds are seemingly exhausted by 3pm and need a snack (but not a lie down as the parents them take them on endless activities)