Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

[Greywall2]

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

I agree that high quality, funded/very subsidised childcare should be available 8-6.

If people want to work part time or do opposite shifts they dont have to use it.

One of the issues is its not attractive employment. We really struggle to staff our morning club in particular.

Yanbu.

Our school has no breakfast club. It's an 8.40 drop off and 3.10 pick up. The after school club only has 40 spaces for a school with 210 children. There's a huge shortage of childminders and childcare workers and the hours a typical ASC offers aren't attractive so they can't get staff for more spaces. The school also don't want an ASC, they are old fashioned and think children should be going home with mummy at 3pm, so the ASC is not on the premises but run by a private provider at a nearby church, which limits the space.

I don't necessarily think more childcare is the only answer though. I'd like to see more standard options to work flexibly and continue the good moves already made to make employers accept flexi working requests so that more parents can pick their children some days. I don't think we need a nation of SAHP of school aged kids bit imho having at least one parent working part time is ideal.

@OiFrogg Our son starts school next week - school day finishes at 3pm. They definitely do exist!

I agree OP, we're finding it hard to figure out the logistics (and we're not even both full time. My husband is full time and I work 3 days a week). We both work for the NHS in clinical roles so can't work from home. Both our families live 200 miles away, so no option of help from that end. It's a nightmare to try and work out what to do. I can't even stretch out my hours over five days to accommodate it as then our one year old would need an extra two days in nursery... At which point her bill would outweigh my earnings so would be pointless.

I don’t think employment options that require people to work 9-5 are a standard working day. I’m not sure that’s ever been an actual standard in the vast majority of professions - perhaps one or two very desk based industries that’s the traditional way, but that’s a small percentage of the working population. I have never worked 9-5 Monday to Friday and I don’t know anyone who does those hours now. Healthcare isn’t 9-5, retail isn’t 9-5, construction isn’t 9-5, Education isn’t 9-5, Leisure and Hospitality isn’t 9-5, being a student isn’t 9-5, caring isn’t 9-5, transportation isn’t 9-5, manufacturing and factories arent 9-5. Aren’t you left with very few roles that are? Why do the people who happen to work a specific working pattern need to be catered to over and above every other working pattern?

The problem lies very much in recruitment for the roles. Many schools in our county are having to close wraparound care because no one wants to work those hours. It's terrible because the demand is there and the fees pay the salaries but very few people apply.

Recruitment is the issue. No one wants to work 7-9am then 3-6pm for essentially peanuts

@OiFrogg Our son starts school next week - school day finishes at 3pm. They definitely do exist Oh I don't doubt they do, but I dispute that they're the norm. Whenever I have looked around schools for jobs (I would guess I've looked around perhaps 40 over the years) I always ask because I'd love to work in one that finishes at 3! Not found one yet though.

There is no doubt that juggling work and childcare arrangements is challenging but I dont think the solution is more childcare. The 40 hour working week is a totally artificial concept and the only reason it exists is because some important people decided that 40 hours was a fair amount of time to dedicate to work. But the 40 hours was implemented as standard back when it was common for the mother to stay at home while the father worked. I dont think it was ever the intention for the person working 40 hours to also be doing childcare, chores, household admin etc. I think what we really need is a shorter working week as standard for example 30 hours so that families can have more quality tine together, people have more time to dedicate themselves to their hobbies and we can have a break from the stress of running around like a headless chicken trying to do everything in the few short hours we have free everyday.

Our primary school finishes at 1:55 for p1-p3.

P4-p7 finish at 3pm

It's only secondary school that finishes at 3:30.

My kid is fine thanks. As a lone parent, I have no choice and I refuse to let people like you make comments like that as if my child is suffering. She loves her wrap around care, she has so much fun and is well cared for, and it means I provide a quality of life for us working full time that on benefits I wouldn’t manage.

If you don’t want to do it for your kid, don’t do it. My kid isn’t having a crap time of it though.

@OiFrogg I can assure you my DC finish at 3pm. 3:15pm is the absolute latest I can pick them up by. Just because you have not experienced a finish before 3:30pm doesn’t mean it is not possible.

At our school ASC is offered but it is massively over subscribed and there are always children on waiting lists.

Hmmm I’d be grateful for what we have today.

Schools are talking about shutting for 2 days a week to reduce energy costs. So I’m half expecting to have to find childcare for 2 days a week this Christmas.

Our school is already in budget deficit and won’t be able to heat the school for 5 days a week over Christmas. There’s just no headroom in the budget.

This winter … not Christmas!

Absolutely didn't say it wasn't possible. Where I am though, it is not the norm. See my last post.

Also 2 schools in my town only open 4 days a week due to budget pressures

So it could be a lot worse!!

With the cost of living increasing, it's never going to be the case that couples can choose if one can go part time or not. Especially now.
My kids love breakfast club and after school club but we do only use it 3 full days as I don't work Fridays and DH finishes early on Wednesdays. Kids can enjoy activities after school or in school without it damaging them somehow.

I think it's employment practices that need to change to be honest.

I would hate to think of all primary aged children being out of the home and with people who aren't their parents from 7:30 until 6 pm 5 days a week. That's pretty heart breaking to be honest.

Good luck, the fact that teachers don't have the option for a more flexible timetable has always astounded me

We’re very lucky. The kids club is attached to the school but run independently. There were spaces available when we moved him mid pandemic. 7:30-8:30: £6.50 a day. 3:15-6: £13 a day. I don’t understand how that is supposed to be affordable.

@Greywall2 they do. It's called going part time

Dont forget the school holidays. I quit because we just couldn't cover them. Holiday clubs round here are all 9-3. 8 years after I quit, I earn 1/3 of my previous salary, but am term time only (so 0.85). I barely pay tax. If childcare had been available I'd have been approaching 40%tax judging from the blokes I used to work with.

This x1000

There are a lot of primary schools in my area that finish between 3 and 3.20 with different timings for different classes.

The kids clubs are privately run in different locations and are not linked to the school.

Having teachers cover the afterschool provision isn't fair at all. In our household we have one teacher and one full-time worker and the teacher has the least flexible arrangement for looking after their children as they frequently need to stay longer hours at school.

Yes, we have this problem at DS school. Wraparound care is now closed because they cannot find staff.

It's a necessity for a lot of parents. My DD is at nursery 4 days a week 8-5:30. She loves it. It isn't 'heartbreaking' - it certainly isn't for you to decide that it is.