Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

[Greywall2]

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

I work in a large primary school and we provide this. Breakfast club from 7.45am and an on-site after school provider until 6pm.

Children deserve time at home with their parents preferably a full time stay at home parent.
We shouldn't be making it easier for children to be in childcare 11 hours a day.
If the majority of families had a stay at home parent then house prices would fall to reflect the fact that people were mostly buying on one income.

But I'm also a person who chooses to work when I don't need to. I couldn't be a SAHP.

Agree with some PP - it's not wrap around childcare that needs to be provided but many more flexible working practices.
From the list of @TastesLikeStrawberries above, the majority do not have to be 9 to 5.

This is an excellent point
The hours are very restrictive and the jobs usually minimum wage too

@Apl

You mean privileged office workers?

What about the people working in shops, in hospitality, in emergency services, in healthcare, in personal services, in transport, in call centres ... you wouldn't like it if nobody was on the end of the the phone when you want to report something at 5pm, you want take aways, you want to buy food ....

Most people don't work in offices, around half do

Recruit for eg. 7-3 and 11-7

DH and I are both teachers too. When our DC were primary aged and younger we each worked four days per week (each having a different day off) and had a term-time only nanny for the other three days each week. The nanny did 7.30am to 6pm for us and it was much more straightforward than when we only had one DC but needed to drop them off ourselves.

It’s sad people are saying ‘poor kids’. Like the parents have any choice right now. I’m sure if they could survive with just one parent working they would. Most people now struggle with 2 incomes in the household, especially with full time childcare upwards of £100 a day

Thats just what teachers do and they need wrap around care too.

Wages should be high enough for one parent working full time to earn enough to pay for a home, all the bills, food, clothes & have some money left. What has changed so much from the 1970's to now? One parent is working now for much less than NMW after childcare is paid for. The population in the UK is declining as the birth rate falls, there will be less young people leaving school, starting work, paying tax & NI, the government should be making it more attractive for couples to have children by either increasing free hours childcare or increasing in work benefits to allow one parent to stay at home. Increasing in work benefits would probably work out cheaper than increasing free hours childcare. Incentives could be made to companies over a certain size to provide on site childcare.

Wages should be high enough for one parent working full time to earn enough to pay for a home, all the bills, food, clothes & have some money left. What has changed so much from the 1970's to now?

Well, it's because the norm became for both parents to work that a one parent wage is no longer enough. Companies are aware that families have more income and so the cost of things go up to reflect this, leading to better profits for the companies. Both parents deciding to work has created the economy where both parents now have to work.

@OiFrogg my DD’s school finishes at 3 as do all the others in our area.

Try being. Nurse that's works 12 hour shifts. There are a couple of nurseries round here that open at 6.30am but the all close around 6pm. Not ideal if you don't finish till 7.30om.

What? That is not how the housing market works.

Isn’t it sad that the OP started this post re how difficult it is for two working parents to manage school life and the lack of wraparound care available and it quickly descended into some women tearing apart other families for utilising wraparound care and proclaiming that 8am to 6pm is unconscionable and that one parent should go part time?

I was the kid who was at school 8am to 6pm. I’m now that parent. I have a very good career and my kid is absolutely fine. If we’re generalising (and there’s a lot of it on this thread) the majority of kids (particularly girls) I grew up with who were picked up at 3:30/4pm by their SAHM or part time working parents grew up with a distinct lack of ambition. History repeats itself, people recreate their known environment. Something that is unconscionable to some is the norm to others. I agree with the OP - better wraparound options are essential to modern families.

i see this as the problem. The whole early years/child care industry is in crisis. Nurseries and after school clubs can’t get staff. Childminder numbers continue to fall every year. Every nursery in our town has advertised for staff since May half term, some repeatedly- the nurseries also run the after school clubs and the childminder numbers are down by 50% since covid. The job is low paid and is not respected by government. It’s not an attractive job- minimum wage, with high levels of stress and responsibility. You get paid more for working in Aldi and I’m told that is a far easier job.

But the government refuse to fund either education or early years adequately, so i see little hope for them funding after school provision. I know very few people who would choose to work 7-9 and then 3-6 every day for minimum wage, so until the financial side is sorted, good quality care just won’t be available.

When I was a child my mum stayed at home when my dad worked & then when we got older my mum worked in the evening, first cleaning at a company 2 minutes walk from where we lived & then later on the twilight shift at a local factory with a lot of the local mums, my dad would walk in from work, my mum would put his tea on the table & go to work 5.30-9.30pm. All the local mums either worked at the factory or packing sweets at Thorntons. She didn't work during the day until my brother was 6 & she saw him through the school gates & went to work 9.00-1.00 in an office. She was always in when we got home from school.

Schools are there to educate children.

DP need to arrange childcare for their own DC, it is not the responsibility of the state.

What's your point? We should all be allowing our menz to go to work, put their dinner on the table and then work inba factory for the evening? That's your answer?

I am an assistant head in a primary school and my fiance also works full time, we have a 3 and 9 yr old. We have always had a childminder as we have seen the horrendous task of covering working hours in terms of childcare. Wrap around care at school is available in many schools and is absolutely fine, however, I feel better knowing my children are away from school and having 'down time' at their lovely childminder's home until we are able to pick up. It's always felt like a more organic choice for us than the school building for 10 hours although I totally understand that excellent childminders are not freely available in all areas.

How are you planning to pay for that if half the workforce is sat at home not paying tax?

Although I agree with you in theory, in practice getting staff for those hours is hard. Who wants to work 8-9 am and 3-6 pm for not much more than minimum wage? It does not appeal to anyone with children and those without will want better hours. So it is not as simple as it sounds.

And my mum worked full time during the 70s and 80s. The difference then was that she could pay a neighbour to look after us. She paid a low amount as it was keeping an eye on us while we played with our friends, including the neighbours kids. Not the current demands of Ofsted.

Or 7-3 and 10-6. If you had one parent on an early start they could do the pick up and do after school routine and make the tea, if they have the late start, they would do the morning routine and the drop off. My ideal solution would be both parents sharing the load like that, and more employers enabling that.

It's essentially what we did, except we both went a bit part time (81%) so neither of us had super early starts.