Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

[Greywall2]

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

But they aren't 'in school' for these hours.

Breakfast club they sit with their friends and eat breakfast, Then they have a few options of places to play, chat or just sit quietly and read.

Afterschool club, they get a snack like toast with jam, a bagel or fruit. They can then either chat with friend, play in the outside space, play video games, do a craft, play a sporty game (they seem to love dodgeball) or just sit somewhere quietly.

They aren't in an enforced activity or classroom setting and they are getting downtime.

I don't think the children are designed for it either. What's the point in life? Is it not to enjoy it? We seem to be scrambling around for jobs as the highest priority, talking about having children cared for by someone else from 8 - 6pm? You working until age 67 the same hours, seeing the children for a rushed morning and tired bedtime?

Why? Is paid work really that important that it should dictate every aspect of our lives?

Just accept we are all different and have different home set ups. I love my job it is a huge part of my identity. I obviously love my daughter and we have a set which allows me to work and have a family. I’m happy, and she is happy in the good quality childcare we have sourced.

The other way we could think about this is that school is (rightly) designed to be good for kids, rather than convenient for adults, and the economy which demands all adults work FT aren't designed for a species that has young to care for.

I think to a large degree that's the tension. A society that takes on childcare provision as a socialized, paid service is making a clear declaration that they want all adults to work, and that will generally mean that almost all must unless they are quite wealthy. Once there is socialized childcare most people can no longer afford to not work.

On the other hand the model where we allow for a greater possibility a parent might stay home is also something that many people would like, and feel they ought to be able to have a fighting chance to make work. Which they probably won't if we go the Scandinavian way on this.

So you kind of end up with neither thing being done well. The state and the big employers want people working, so they aren't likely to really try and create a situation where it's possible for most families to manage without two incomes.

Live in Canada (horrible according to some people on the other thread) and before and after school club is standard in all schools (opens at 6am, closes at 6am). Costs around $200 cad every 3 months.

It is held in the school and includes activities etc. It is packed full of kids and demonstrates the need for it to enable people (women?) to continue their career. I. E. The women aren't stuck at home cos they can't find childcare!

Why? Is paid work really that important that it should dictate every aspect of our lives?
Jesus I despair. I am going to say it again... It is important when you have become a single parent or are a single parent for whatever reason. This isn't bloody pin money, if I don't work then I cannot support my children. Are some people on this thread really this hard of thinking?! It is not a choice for everyone!!

@conkercollector Yes I realise that- I think the big difference was after school care was only used for about 1 hour tops , both men and women seemed to finish a lot earlier.

Great post. This would make it so much easier for parents and would help kids too. I do know of children who thrive on a breakfast club, school day, after school club routine but my son would really hate it.

Well, I would say that we should structure our society so that you can afford to live as a single parent without working 50 hour weeks.

Childcare like this (and more…….) is the reason when your kid is helicoptered to the ED, there are staff there to resuscitate them.

You’re welcome.

@OiFrogg DC's first school was 8.40am-3pm.

My DC2's school finishes at 3 through 3.15 depending on the year group (staggered pickups). My DC1's school finishes at 2.45 (specialist school).

I think your experience must be local as I’ve both taught in schools that finish at 3pm and my children are in a school that finishes at 3pm.

Id like to see strong government pressure to improve working conditions. It’s in their power to say give NI discounts to any employer who signs up to a voluntary charter for parents including things like being able to take a break for school pick up, being able to work from home etc.

I totally agree. When I criticise the longer childcare=better for families, I’m NOT saying that single parents should just be left high and dry. I do think that all government policies should work on a basis that families with children need at least one parent part time (with one parent equivalent for SEND children and those under 2 or 3 yes). Benefits, taxation, employment law should follow this. For a two parent family it should be an explicit expectation that parents should be able to have a good, affordable life on a combined working life of 1.5 x37.5hours. For single parents it should be 0.5x37.5.
If parents want to work more, then fine! But we should be structuring society around the needs of children not the other way around.
This is not a dig at working parents (I am one!), it’s a cry to radically reorder things to make them better.

Why are you assuming that kids don't enjoy childcare? My DD loves nursery & asks to go at the weekend!

Totally agree with this.

That would really annoy me