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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

317 replies

Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 21:22

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

OP posts:
drkpl · 30/08/2022 22:18

I know 2 parents working full time isn’t the ideal. But we bloody have to. My dp’s salary doesn’t even cover all the bills. I pay for food and rest of bills with mine and then we have a bit left (not much tbh). We don’t have a big mortgage or anything fancy. One small car, no finance. We’re just both low salary. I suppose one of us should just give up and we should rely on universal credit - but what about pensions? Uh the list goes on.

Sobaridiot · 30/08/2022 22:19

Holly60 · 30/08/2022 22:11

I think it's employment practices that need to change to be honest.

I would hate to think of all primary aged children being out of the home and with people who aren't their parents from 7:30 until 6 pm 5 days a week. That's pretty heart breaking to be honest.

ODFOD

hangrylady · 30/08/2022 22:20

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AntlerRose · 30/08/2022 22:21

These jobs that arent 9-5 are not geberally 9-3 eithervthough so surely having chikdcare available 8-6 would help. Particularly in a couple with a bit of shift juggling.

The morning club I work in is really popular with care assistants and health workers.

And the children are happy enough. Im not a stranger and I plan nice things that give a soft start to the day for them..

Original poster
Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 22:21

Muchtoomuchtodo · 30/08/2022 21:34

There are plenty of jobs that aren’t 9-5, Monday to Friday, sometimes hard decisions need to be made about who works where and when to accommodate your dc’s

Some schools are able to offer more than others, that can be a factor in which schools you apply for.

If your kids are primary aged they are young enough that you should have thought about this relatively recently when you planned to have a family.

childcare is tough in this country but this is nothing in new

I would argue that a well planned wrap around care provision where children get playtime and fresh air is better than a child being looked after by a tired parent and sat in front of the TV while the parents are rushing around cleaning the housing or getting dinner ready or doing other household chores.

OP posts:
Itiswhatitis21 · 30/08/2022 22:22

Me and my partner have to work opposite shifts, he's in a 9 till 5 job and i work for the hospital bank doing night shifts. Means 1 of us is always home for the kids

StepAwayFromGoogling · 30/08/2022 22:22

@MoveBitch - what are you suggesting? That schools move to shift patterns? So the kids are at school any old hours and the parents just have to work around it?

Lunde · 30/08/2022 22:24

In Sweden affordable wrap around care is always available. In my Local Authority it is available from 6am-6pm and the maximum it costs in £85 per month with 50% discounted places for other family children and discounts for low income earners.

There is also care provided on the same basis during the holidays

StepAwayFromGoogling · 30/08/2022 22:24

Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 22:21

I would argue that a well planned wrap around care provision where children get playtime and fresh air is better than a child being looked after by a tired parent and sat in front of the TV while the parents are rushing around cleaning the housing or getting dinner ready or doing other household chores.

Show quote history

THIS! Agree 100%. Like the only people who can care for children is their parents.

StepAwayFromGoogling · 30/08/2022 22:25

Also, I know VERY few people who don't work 9-5.

TheMoth · 30/08/2022 22:25

Apl · 30/08/2022 21:30

It’s a mess for sure. But I don’t think the solution is getting children to childcare by 7.45 and picking them up gone 6pm. Those are very unhealthy hours for a child 😥. School doesn’t need to change, the workplace does. The internet allows most jobs to be done somewhat flexibly.

What is needed is a legal right for most employees to not be required to be physically at work before 10 or after 4. Many jobs already have 10-4 as ‘core hours’ with some work to be done in evening after kids are home.

My kids have always been dropped off at 730 then picked up between530 and 6. And then ignored by me quite often, as I worked after dinner.

But there's no way I could have done flexible hours, as I'm also a teacher.

LastWordsOfALiar · 30/08/2022 22:26

Apl · 30/08/2022 21:30

It’s a mess for sure. But I don’t think the solution is getting children to childcare by 7.45 and picking them up gone 6pm. Those are very unhealthy hours for a child 😥. School doesn’t need to change, the workplace does. The internet allows most jobs to be done somewhat flexibly.

What is needed is a legal right for most employees to not be required to be physically at work before 10 or after 4. Many jobs already have 10-4 as ‘core hours’ with some work to be done in evening after kids are home.

This.

Of course lots of families have to work long hours to pay the bills and that needs to change (better salaries, lower rents, lower energy costs etc).

But the answer isn't kids being in childcare more, I don't think. The odd day is fine, but 8-6pm, Mon to Fri is way too long for children. It would be too long for me, let alone a 6 year old.

Unfortunately, like most big issues, plasters are put on rather than addressing the route cause. Why do parents need to earn so much just to meet their basic needs...

Original poster
Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 22:27

Iamnotthe1 · 30/08/2022 21:34

The thing that needs editing here is how we approach working arrangements, not schooling. It's not good for a young child to be in breakfast club, school and then after school club, basically seeing their parents only for getting up and going to bed. However, at the moment, some parents have little choice. We should be making it easier for parents to be more present in their child's life during term time rather than making it the expectation that they'll be away from them.

Totally agree that working arrangements should be more flexible to allow for more family time and for parents to spend more time with kids.

As some employers are private sector, or public sector and inflexible, it seems like focusing on the 7 years at primary might allow for more change than the wide spread of different employers.

OP posts:
applebot · 30/08/2022 22:27

There are plenty of jobs that aren’t 9-5, Monday to Friday, sometimes hard decisions need to be made about who works where and when to accommodate your dc’s

Ok, like what? It's usually full time regular hours. Or I could quit my job and work unsocial hours, or get a part time minimum wage job. It's not feasible to change careers like that

Iamnotthe1 · 30/08/2022 22:27

Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 22:21

I would argue that a well planned wrap around care provision where children get playtime and fresh air is better than a child being looked after by a tired parent and sat in front of the TV while the parents are rushing around cleaning the housing or getting dinner ready or doing other household chores.

Show quote history

Well that's very true. If the alternative to childcare is a parent who is too rushed off their feet that they can't do anything with their child then, yes, childcare is better. Though I think the question needs to be why are we in that situation in the first place?

LastWordsOfALiar · 30/08/2022 22:27

TheMoth · 30/08/2022 22:25

My kids have always been dropped off at 730 then picked up between530 and 6. And then ignored by me quite often, as I worked after dinner.

But there's no way I could have done flexible hours, as I'm also a teacher.

Show quote history

That may be the case, but you can hardly say that's ideal for your children.

I don't think anyone would say it's your fault, of course it's not, but more needs to be done in the UK to enable a better lifestyle for the whole family.

applebot · 30/08/2022 22:28

If workplaces could give the option to make up lost work time at home, I'd be happy to do that. Also, nothing wrong with wrap around but from a child's perspective it can be a bit much. Sometimes you just want to be at home after a long day at school

Original poster
Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 22:29

Discovereads · 30/08/2022 21:36

While I agree it is a problem, I don’t agree the solution is for young kids to be outside the home from 8am to 6pm Monday through Friday. That’s too long of a day for anyone, much less young children. I’d rather see a shift in FT employment to 30hr weeks (five 6hr days) with flexible start and stop times as many studies show we are most productive on such a schedule.

A better working pattern with more flexibility sounds like it could really help. There are some companies with core hours as others have mentioned so perhaps that would be a good compromise

OP posts:
Iamnotthe1 · 30/08/2022 22:30

Greywall2 · 30/08/2022 22:27

Totally agree that working arrangements should be more flexible to allow for more family time and for parents to spend more time with kids.

As some employers are private sector, or public sector and inflexible, it seems like focusing on the 7 years at primary might allow for more change than the wide spread of different employers.

Show quote history

It would be easier in terms of change but it would also be like treating a symptom of the disease without treating the disease itself.

Doyoumind · 30/08/2022 22:30

It's not just about two working parents. I'm a single mum working full time. DC's school does offer wraparound care but it still doesn't meet my needs and previously I had to find alternative childcare. The only way I can now manage is because I wfh for part of the week.

Lanesdown · 30/08/2022 22:30

My kids were in nursery from 7 months + wrap around childcare from 7am until 6pm, in fact we used to leave the house at 6.45am and return at 6.15pm! This was for 3 days a week for years until covid hit. They are now 9 and 11 and well rounded, confident and independent kids. Let's stop with the "poor kids" judgement and assumptions that these set ups are detrimental to a child's wellbeing. My kids are doing amazing and This helped me keep a well paid job and career we are benefitting from now.

Cece92 · 30/08/2022 22:30

I am single parent and work full time (I have no option) my shifts are varied but Monday - Friday. I drop my daughter to breakfast club for 8.15 so I can start at 9. I pick her up 2x a week at 3 when I finish and a Friday I pick her up at 12.30 on my lunch break. The other 2 days I work until 6, so her dad will pick her up and Wednesday and Thursday are his 'weekend' I do hybrid working so fairly lucky however, if I have to go back 5 days a week it will be a struggle. I can't work weekends or nights not possible. If I had wrap around care until 5/6 I'd be able to have a normal Monday - Friday 9-5. Childcare is way to expensive aswell 😔

SpongeBob2022 · 30/08/2022 22:31

I work part time until 3pm in a well paid job and get to do pick ups every day. I lose quite a lot of money to do so but it's worth it for me and my employer gets a good deal out of me doing this too. But I requested part time as an established full time worker.

If I were to look from scratch for a 9 to 3 job I would have to halve my salary, and that's being optimistic.

I think there needs to be more wrap around provision but also much more flexibility in the workplace. Including home working considerations too.

StepAwayFromGoogling · 30/08/2022 22:33

applebot · 30/08/2022 22:28

If workplaces could give the option to make up lost work time at home, I'd be happy to do that. Also, nothing wrong with wrap around but from a child's perspective it can be a bit much. Sometimes you just want to be at home after a long day at school

But that doesn't work - because you either pick the kids up, go home, and ignore them because you need to log on again OR you do play, dinner, bath, bedtime and THEN log on eating into your only downtime of the day when you're aleady exhausted.

BessieFinkNottle · 30/08/2022 22:34

Being picky, but I've never worked in a school that didn't finish at 3.30pm. I've honestly never come across a school that finishes at 3pm.

In Ireland, not the UK, but here children aged 5 and 6 often finish at about 1.45pm, with children aged 7 to 12 or 13 finishing at 2.45pm. (They start at 9am approx.) No wrap around care or after school clubs at my school. Agree with a pp that often one parent, usually the mother, works part time for a few years...

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