Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

[Greywall2]

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

Perhaps, but you said your children went 3 days a week, so you worked part time?

This post was suggesting full time wrap around to accommodate full time working. There's a huge difference (40% more childcare hours).

Also, you can't, or shouldn't, base a whole statement around general well-being based only on your example. Your children are only 2 children so you can't speak for others.

Young children DO benefit from spending time with their families, that's evidenced. Obviously for a multitude of reasons people can't always afford to work less, but that doesn't mean it's in the child's best interests.

I personally think it's sad that women (usually) get to choose between reasonable family lifestyle balance Vs a 'successful career'. A meaningful, fulfilling career should be available for everyone, even if they work 3 days a week or reduced hours.

I did have this for quite a few years and the solution that worked best was I worked from 6am - 10am on Saturday and Sunday from home to make up the 8hrs lost during M-F. DH got them up and did breakfast and then at by 10am, we’d start our day as a family. It minimised the impact. I’m also a morning person and so never really saw the point of lie ins.

There are more women with school age children in England than all the rest of the populations of the UK countries put together.

And yet this social group doesn't seem to be listened to or treated as a group of people with needs.

Wonder why that is eh.

our 3 did 8-6 most days as I did not want to lose my career
No one expected DH to give up his career

Very true, there are many jobs that don't fit the 9 - 5 and childcare must be a lot more difficult for those households.
However in terms of wrap around care, as hours are so varied, it sounds like it would need a different solution. Are there options for overnight , late evening and early morning childcare that doesn't involve a childminder or nanny or relative?

And there's the rub. It's ALWAYS the mother that goes part time. Thus shafting her opportunity to develop and progress her career for a good 10 years. And teaching our children for another generation that daddy goes out to make money and mummy does is mostly there to do the womens work of raising children and keeping a house.

Wrap around care is basically NEVER available for children with SEN. At all. At any cost or inconvenience. And "holiday care" is 6 hours twice per 6 weeks where you have to be on call.

This.

All these comments saying 8-6 is too long for a child is making me feel like a terrible parent for going back to work but I have no choice. I'll be working 8.30 - 5.30 4 days per week, meaning DC will be dropped off around 8 and collected at 5.45. Flexible working hours aren't an option, nor is working from home. In an ideal world I'd love to work 16 hours a week and spend the rest of my life with my DC but that's not realistic for me, or I'm sure for many parents out there.

That sounds like it would make life so much easier for a lot of families, I think the UK could learn a lot from that childcare model.

There definitely needs to be more done to normalise the idea of dads as the primary caregiver in the UK. A better balance here would have lots of positive effects including on things like the pay gap.

But what? Going part time wouldn't have paid the bills. Should I expect to be subsidised for having children? Schools can't be flexible, for obvious reasons. My kids have been fine, because they know no different. They've enjoyed having a house to live in and a sunny holiday once a year.

Which jobs offer 10-4?

That's VERY flexible. I don't know anyone able to make up work at the weekend.

Except the ones that are the children of teachers, right?

Oh, I agree, but someone needs to tell the men because they didn't get the memo.

Most people I know both work full-time. In London it is very common for this set-up. Not everyone has the opportunity to do part-time hours in their role.

That must be so difficult, rest is so important for caregivers, especially when caring for children with SEN.

Not enough is being done yet: it's still far too "optional".

If you look at a country like Sweden, they have a much higher level of equality when it comes to men and women taking care of children. That's, in part, because both men and women get the same "post child leave" following the birth or adoption of a child and they can't transfer it so it makes sense for both to take it.

I dont think tgey need government intervention. Raise it with the PTA or governors. If they can make them work commercially they are super.

It's such a aimple change, isn't it? and it would be so effective. But as a country we can't afford it.

We could if children were a government priority but they never are.

Your opinion on 9-5 jobs appears very biased and I find it hard to believe you only know 2 people with those working hours. A lot of the industries you mention have 9-5 roles, many of which are not admin based as you have suggested, healthcare really stood out to me. The following roles in my experience are generally 'office based' hours.

GP surgeries
Practice/Treatment room based nurses
Non hospital based pharmacists
Community nurses
Health visitors

Dentists
Opticians
Occupational therapists
Speech and language therapists
Most outpatient hospital roles, think of all the staff based at various clinics; antenatal, respiratory, diabetic, neurology, rheumatology, x-ray depts, physiotherapy etc
Plumbers
Electricians
Mechanics
Joiners
IT based roles, software engineers etc
Banking/finance based roles
Solicitors
Many civil servant roles
Architects, building surveyors

I'm sure the list could go on...

I'm very lucky I have a childminder who I have used since I went back to work after maternity leave and she does wraparound

There was a breakfast/ after school club Pre-covid that serviced 3 local schools
One academy primary age 4-11

Then one infant/ nursery - age 2-7

One middle school age 7-11

Now post Covid as a lot of people still work from home and have more flexible work it has closed as people who work from home can often squeeze in a school run so it saves them money.

The club did try to run as a smaller setting and do after school only as opposed to breakfast but it just wasn't financially viable for them with a lot less children and so it's gone all together

The local childminders all have huge waiting lists so I consider myself to be very lucky

I agree, at the moment I would imagine there are very few families that can afford to cut hours. The first year my kids were in nursery, I went part time working 4 days a week 10 - 6 so I could do the drop off and spend 3 days at home with them.
My wages + travel covered childcare but I wasnt left with much as the £1200 a month childcare for each cost more than our monthly mortgage at the time. Once the kids were in school I used the extra money to start saving again.

Yanbu.

Almost all families I know have both parents working full time.

And jobs where there's significant flexibility (e.g. exDHs) wreak havoc on the workers mental health and work life balance because of the stop/ start nature of the working day. It's not sustainable. A block is much better.