Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

[Greywall2]

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

@pantiesonfire oh fuck off what a ridiculous comment

@pantiesonfire can you please confirm that you intend to or have homeschooled any child you've had? I'd hate to think you've just given up on parenting when they hit 4 and not bothered raising your kids yourself. I mean seriously what's even the point of having them if you're just going to hand them over to someone else to impart knowledge to them 6-7 hrs a day, every day!

For anyone who can't tell, the above is sarcasm. I too think that what pantiesonfire said is stupid.

Why have kids if you're too lazy to teach them a decent work ethic so they grow up to be responsible humans?

Works both ways eh?

Oh hey fucked, some people need to work to survive. A child has an abundance of energy and time and kids club is just playing with friends. What a horrible judgy person you are. You don’t think the parents who have to do this don’t already feel shit? What an idiot

Not that there's any problem doing that full time, but you do realise parents might put their child in for those hours one or two days a week? I can earn more in a day in the career I trained in than I would in 5 days in a lower paid job in mainly school hours. Why would I not put my children in childcare so I could do that? How many days a week does one have to work before you consider that 'not raising your children'?

Totally agree with @pantiesonfire
whats the point of having kids if your not raising them. My friend and her husband work from 7-7 every nday pretty much and the guilt they are going through. But I see where they r coming from! I try to comfort them but they're right, parents should be there as much as possible it's different when the kids are much older for instance (well say 16 plus)

I work full time and am pleased to be able to confirm to you that my DH and I are raising our DC
So happy to be able to reassure you

Most of my town have raised my kids. They've been to nursery, childminders, neighbours, friends and school. We've protected family time in a way my sahm and full time dad never did. They've had a great childhood and are pretty independent teens.

Why bother having kids if you’re not raising them? It makes no sense

There's always one. And in this case one who does not understand what raising a child means.

I’m proud my daughter has two working parents to look up too. We both value their careers and we are pretty dam good at our jobs. She has excellent wrap around care and has been in 8am-6pm childcare since 11 months old. she is a happy confident resilient little girl and I don’t feel one ounce of guilt about being a full time working mum.

if you have a different set up great for you. I do not judge stay at home parents or part time working parents at all. So why don’t you try not to be such a judgmental dick.

I do raise my children Thankyou- I also pay for good quality childcare and have a career I’m very proud of.

i don’t judge stay at home parents so why don’t you try not judging parents who parent in a different way to you

This thread is full of judgemental, outdated and sexist views. Great some parents want to be stay at home or work part time. But respect that some parents either don’t have that option due to finances or indeed have a fulfilling career they want to pursue.

We should be fighting for good quality affordable childcare for young children as well as primary aged children. And also where jobs permit flexible working to allow parents to have more choice. It shouldn’t be a toss up between a career and a family. You would think in 2022 women really should be able to have both.

You can't have both though. You can't physically look after your baby / toddler properly and work at the same time. I disagree that a nursery worker or childminder is 'raising' your child, and I think it's unkind to say that. However, there is an awful lot of development that takes place between birth and 5 years, and children take on the attitudes and atmosphere around them. So it's fair to say the people / person caring for a child of this age has a huge influence on them, especially if they are with them for most of their waking hours, 5 days a week. I think it's OK to acknowledge that.

Out come the pearl clutches shrieking about how awful it is that kids might be in childcare 8-6. Fucks sake stop bashing other parents. You make your choices others choose different.

I agree that who cares for your child has a great influence on them - that’s why we need affordable good quality child care and that’s where we should be putting out efforts. Rather than the classic working mum judging . I have been fortunate to have wonderful child care and I am very grateful the staff have had so much influence in my child.

I think you're missing the point here, it's not about rest for caregivers (which is essential) but suitable and accessible childcare for working parents of children with SEND.
There's an assumption that such families have a SAHP, and that only odd days here and there for respite are needed.

Mine have all managed to turn into fully functioning adults despite being in nursery

God Almighty I really do wish the stay-at-home brigade would stop making such judgy snidey comments. I am a single parent to 2 kids and have been since oldest was 3, she is now 24. Some people on here need to realise that not every household has the benefits of 2 adults. I have managed to work to earn a decent living, feed and clothe my children, house them and have a fulfilling career and actually raise them too. It is possible to do so and even to do it without scarring your kids for life🙄Honestly, some of the comments on this thread.

I think it is unreasonable to expect kids to go to school for those hours yes. Not unreasonable to want a solution but that needs to be around work/life balance, not forcing kids to spend more time within an institution.

Better pay, more flexible hours, shorter work week would be the actual solution.

One thing I noticed in Copenhagen as we had a school at end of street was kids were in breakfast club at 8am!! However most people left the office at 3.45 for school /nursery pick ups around 4.15 . They also just had half hour lunches in the office - with lovely lunch delivered and paid for- this was common!

Most families seemed to have parents around at home around 4.30 and not working either but they did start early.

I think if I had young kids this would make more sense

They also seemed to have a lot of good holiday clubs around but also frequently had 3 weeks off in the summer .

I was in nursery and then wrap around care from a very young age and I can hand on heart tell you now that not only I did not take on the attitude of my nursery workers, I don't even remember who they were. I got my attitude from my hard working parents, who also taught me how to walk, speak, read and write.

I know but we will be a poor family if I don’t get myself to work. I do compress my days so work long ones when they are with their Dad so I can pickup at school twice a week. Not everyone has that option though.

It varies a lot from country to country in “Europe”. Even from state to state. In Bavaria kids start at 8 and finish at 12 in the early days of primary. If you are lucky you get a spot in the wraparound which goes until 5. You won’t even get a look in if you are not both working, so then there is a great circular reference whereby you can’t get a job because you have no childcare and you can’t get childcare because you have no job. The only positive is that it you do get a spot, it’s not very expensive. The expense is what kills it in the U.K., but in terms of provision, the U.K. is actually not so bad.

This. My dd was in childcare for that time frame and she’s fine. She actually enjoyed it as she got to play but she also got down time. It’s the same thing she would do if she were at home with me.

One thing I noticed in Copenhagen as we had a school at end of street was kids were in breakfast club at 8am!!

Loads of kids in the UK are in breakfast club at 8am. Most clubs start at 7.30.