To think DH is being too harsh here?

[TheLostNights]

DD is 7. Baby of the family.
DH thinks she manipulates me. For example she gets upset if I can't take her to school even though I never really have done because of work. She will have a long crying fit the night before or in the morning meaning I am often running late for work. It's not because she dislikes the event or person sje is left with, she just wants me or DH.
DH says she should have grown out of this now and that I need to stop pandering to it. Aibu to say she is still a little girl and it's natural for her to do this?

@DarkFruitz yes…
it’s sad to read all the comments.

@CoffeeDeprivation "I personally don't think they "manipulate" us at that age"

Naivety at its finest. Children will always manipulate their environment, much like adults. They do it to get what they need, attention, affection, food etc. It isn't a BAD thing, its just what it is.

Our 2 year old started (trying) playing my wife and I off each other a year ago! Some good old fashioned reinforcers and aversive consequences soon stopped that!

Some posters are talking as if she is a dog to be trained

Nope she is a child that needs to be trained. Honestly some of the responses on here are unreal, Are we now saying we dont need to train our children to become normal functioning adults?

So no training to sleep on thier own? (I'm sure some of the cruncy mums will pick this one up).
No potty training?
No weaning?
No leaving them with anyone else other than mum?
No telling them to stop being bratty and crying for no reason?

I just don't get it!

There might be some sort of attachment issue going on here. If you’re on Facebook, have a look at Therapeutic Parenting page. Put the same post on there & you’ll get so much more positive support.

No telling them to stop being bratty and crying for no reason?

I’m so glad I’m not your kid 🙈

Me too! My kids are teens and adults now, I'm so glad I brought them up to respect the others around them and taught them you do not get your own way by crying and being bratty.

They are awesome!

Instead of him coming down hard on her I think you need to try and get to the bottom of why she's so upset. Talk to her yourself, just you and her. It sounds like it could be she's feeling rejected by you both and wants more time with you. I agree she's still a little girl.

@TheLostNights

Listen to your instincts. They are usually right.

Is tantrumming an effective way for your DD to get her own way? If it doesn't generally work for her and you don't take her to school when she cries, it's unlikely that this is manipulative behaviour. If it feels like genuine distress, she need you to help her by finding out the root of her emotions and helping to address it. Emotionally detatching from her when she is distressed may stop her outward behaviour but it won't reduce the underlying distress.

Please don't believe the myth that you can teach resilience by being tough on children. Children become resilient when their needs are met effectively and they feel secure and competent to manage the emotions that result from challenging situations. That comes from responsive parenting, not tough love.

Children are programmed to learn independence, just like they are programmed to learn to walk. They will do it in their own time and pushing them to do it before they are ready is likely to be counterproductive.

Follow the PP's advice and look into therapeutic parenting. It's much more likely to be your answer than going against your instincts and causing your DD additional distress.

A lot of people on here are jumping to some very strong conclusions on very slight information.
For context, we need to know if this behaviour is typical for your dd in all circumstances or is it unique to occasions where she’s being separated from you?
Is she generally a sensitive child? Could she be genuinely upset/fearful of separation?
If, as your DH suspects she’s being manipulative, is this observable in other contexts? If this is the only way in which she is ‘manipulative’ there may be more to it than that.
Maybe she just needs reassurance eg an extra 5 minutes of your time at bedtime; extra hugs when she sees you after school or just 5 minutes with you away from DH.

I’ve got one of these. We allow it to go on for a period of time so he’s got space to talk about his feelings and why he feels them - that time can vary depending on whether he’s trying it on. (Because he’s not daft, and he’s absolutely 100% learned that behaving in this way gets a ‘reward’. Sometimes the time we allow is about 3 seconds.)

Then he gets a brisk reminder that everyone has things they feel that they don’t like and it’s time for x now. Because he also has to learn to deal with those feelings himself - we can’t do it for him. And he needs to learn that he will be disappointed or sad or what have you, but that the world won’t end.

You’re not teaching her anything helpful because you’re giving her no tools, just reinforcing her behaviour.

@Staynow At last someone caring and sympathetic. Yes, great advice!

The majority of these comments horrify me.

I'll tell you OP, I wish my mum had been as concerned about me as you are with your daughter. Maybe things would have been very different indeed. Unfortunately like most people here, my mum thought I was just 'playing up' and being 'a spoilt brat' which I can assure you was far from the truth. She was convinced by this by several people - one of these being the person who was abusing me physically and she stood by this while he dealt out his 'rightful' punishment. Tsk! Sure!

I can assure you, it sorted me right out. I didn't bother asking for help not did I whine and she thought everybody was right. They weren't. They couldn't have been more horrifically wrong. And it's due to these comments I don't confide in anybody because if you can't be a 7 year old with worries or extreme behaviours what hope does an adult have to express herself in the world?

I'll tell you. Bob hope and no hope.

I've studied child psychology as a hobby as a result of the trauma from my childhood (yes, I can imagine some of the commentators sniggering at that and shame on you!), if a child's behaviour changes suddenly then that's not a sign of misbehaviour. These are warning bells alerting you to a problem. This calls for investigation into what this problem is. But like me, I didn't tell anyone about what was happening at home due to all the negativity other people felt the need to throw in.

You know your DD best, OP. If this is new behaviour then please do get to the bottom of it. And please do not let my history worry you. My circumstances were extreme.

Some posters are talking as if she is a dog to be trained

Personally I find young children and dogs similar anyway.

Delighted to go to the park - check.
Your best friend if you give them a tasty treat - check.
Exercise them thoroughly or the bastards will never sleep - check.
Teach them respect, so they know their place and who's in charge - check.
Reinforce positive behaviour with lots of praise - check.
Repetition is key for them to learn something new - check.

Sounds like your husband is right. You're pandering to her.

She is still young but she is manipulating you, your husband is right.
She is crying to get her own way, there is nothing wrong with her. X

My 7yo does similar , gets worked up and struggles to calm himself down. It’s hard but I have very low tolerance, we would be late to school every single day if I did what you did. I talk calmly through it the night before, pre empting all the scenarios, but if they come up again in the morning I do shout sometimes , which I’m not happy about. I’m with your dh, 7 is old enough not to do this. If I said you can have a bowl of chocolate icecream if you put your jumper on (Random topic which has been a source of meltdowns), he’d have his jumper on in a blink. (& then probably have a tantrum about something else) Obviously I don’t say that!!

I'm not sure. When she cries about someone else taking her to school do you give in and take her? If not there is a genuine reason she's upset. I wouldn't let your DH talk to her. You talk to her, on you own, preferably on the weekend. Try and find out why she's upset each morning. Lots of children do struggle with change but I'd try and find out if anything else is worrying her.
Having said that she does sound younger than 7. My son is 2 and we had tears and tantrums every morning at nursery. Kiss, cuddle and a bright see you later, love you was what I did every morning before walking away.
A month later he was going in to nursery smiling. It could be because he settled but I think part of it was not giving him too much attention.
Have you tried just giving her a brief but loving goodbye and then leaving?

I feel for you @TheLostNights as I have an 8yo DS like this. He is the youngest of 3 and very much more “feely” than the other two. Their big feelings were much easier to deal with because they weren’t, well, quite as BIG as ds3s. When he has these big feels I do sit with him sometimes and just help him ride it out. Mainly because I am similar and my parents just let me get on with it in the corner which means that as an adult I have had to re-learn how to deal with my emotions as I never did when I was young.

He will often say Mum, I’m having a big feeling now- we will have a little chat about it, what it is/why he thinks he has it and I help him (I hope) put it in perspective as he is prone to overthinking too. Ends up with reassurance that feelings are good things and quite helpful, a cuddle and a happy smiley boy.

I would probably approach the long crying sessions with an acknowledgment of the fact she’s got some strong emotions going on and that you’re there to help her manage them so your days can continue and she can get to school/go to camp etc. We often have little hearts drawn on the palm of our hands in biro when I drop him off at school that we have “charged up” by holding hands during the morning so if he feels a bit of a wobble he can press the heart himself and get a shot of some mum love 😂

Some days he comes home with the heart worn away from pressing it so much and some days he forgets it’s even there the second he gets out the car, but it helps him in the moment when we’ve drawn them to feel reassured.

New emotions come out in strange ways- I remember when he first felt disappointed in himself (think he had been naughty at school and was a bit ashamed)- he was bloody miserable at home and a pain in the bum that evening at bedtime. Little chat about what he was feeling and how it was useful because it reminds him that being naughty doesn’t actually feel nice, and he decided that he’d try harder at school the next day. Cheered up no end and went to bed fine after that. But he was being a little sod at home because he didn’t know what the feeling was or what to do with it.

I agree with not pandering and she does need to know that you are there to help but not just allow her to go over and over the same thing for hours.l Perhaps if you make your attention productive and related to getting her to identify the worry then each time the feeling pops up you can remind her of how she dealt with it before and soon she won’t need you to remind her as she’ll be able to do it herself automatically. That’s what I’ve found anyway. Best of luck

Yabu. From a mum of a 6 and a half year old. Yes it's upsetting and they're young but they should have learned by now how things are. They are manipulating you and it sounds like it works. The fact is you can't take her and nothing can change that, you need to go to work. Sounds like a big unnecessary drama that most kids deal with fine.

Your daughter will always struggle if you continue to treat her like a baby.

My 8 year old girl is laid with me now having hugs! 😂

She kicks off and you pander your her you are making life very difficult for your household
undermining you DH
But more to the point you are doing your DD no favours by enabling this behaviour
you are the problem here

Sounds like unreasonable behaviour but there must be an underlying reason. Do you ask her why she feels this way? explain upfront what's happening, or do things happen without warning?

She doesn't sound like a nervous child.

Maybe you do need to be firmer. It must be exhausting for you. If she's aware of the plans, and why things are happening on any day you can remind her, "we talked about this" I.e. you are following through on plans.

I'm not sure what the answer is or how but maybe she feels the need to have more power in the relationship? I'm thinking of those scenarios where you give a child a choice of red or green socks... not sure how to make that a reality in your situation though

Good luck

She is not autistic. Nobody has ever suggested that. She has a lot of friends and outside of the tines I mentioned, is very happy when she's at home with me and DH.

it is a possibility. Autistic Girls are brilliant at masking and many are not diagnosed until teenagers. They can be extremely bright and Lots of friends doesn’t mean she isn’t struggling sometimes. One of the traits of autism is liking routine/ liking familiarity so definitely worth considering given her overreactions to changes to what she sees as her preferred routine.

Quite sad to read sone of these responses, including yours OP. Firstly, seven is still really young to the posters saying it isn't. Secondly, additional needs are often well masked in some children and that's an avenue to explore rather than just say "no she isn't". I have direct experience there with DD as I put certain behaviours down to age etc and she has ADHD and I should have taken her to a psychologist earlier as it has actually been a little damaging that she didn't get diagnosed until 12, but she masked a lot of it until the first year of high school, when it became very apparent. Thirdly, anxiety in children is a real thing and it's not manipulative behaviour, so again that's something to get looked at.

In many other countries, it's normal to take a child who is exhibiting different behaviour to most other kids their age to a psychologist. They can help your child and they can help you as a parent to navigate difficult emotions and how to best deal with the situation without unwittingly causing emotional trauma. I would suggest doing this. Maybe it's nothing, but maybe it isn't and we as parents are not child psychologists and don't always handle challenging behaviour as we should.