To think DH is being too harsh here?

[TheLostNights]

DD is 7. Baby of the family.
DH thinks she manipulates me. For example she gets upset if I can't take her to school even though I never really have done because of work. She will have a long crying fit the night before or in the morning meaning I am often running late for work. It's not because she dislikes the event or person sje is left with, she just wants me or DH.
DH says she should have grown out of this now and that I need to stop pandering to it. Aibu to say she is still a little girl and it's natural for her to do this?

It's normal for children not to get what they want all the time. Her wanting to be taken by you or her dad is also normal but being upset for hours is not. (You say that she loves her aunt so she is a suitable person to do the drop off)

I think offering a hug because she's disappointed is fine (everybody can be disappointed about something not going their way) but she'll never learn to deal with emotions if you're there n E ct to her for hours. It's ok for her to be on her own for a bit until the sadness passes. By staying with her for hours, it makes a little disappointment into a massive deal and teaches her that this is how she has your attention for hours.

When she was 2/3 did you sit by her side as soon as she tantrummed? Or did you wait until she started to calm down and help her at that point ?

If you could take her to camp but having SIL do it instead then you should feel guilty but you're working which is a legitimate reason not to be available. Don't feel guilty. People need to work.

I'm not the kind of parent that panders to my child and I've got other perfectly fine children too ,but one of mine suffers from emotional regulation issues and believe me it's bloody hard work!
Child is receiving therapy for this and even the therapist says the child is hard work!
Everyone is unique and it's not always down to pandering!

Your DH is absolutely right.

Why are you concerned and pandering to her tantrum for hours? That's insanity. Just a straightforward "X is taking you tomorrow as mummy has to work. Now, do you want to sit and waste your day crying or shall we go and do X together?"

She's playing you like a fiddle. She's seven, not three, and more than capable of understanding that you can't always be there to take her to school or camp. But she's learnt that if she throws a fit, you'll come running and she'll get hours of your attention and fuss.

Just stop. Let her cry.

@Mally100 - SEN is often mentioned for a reason. Do you know much about autism? If not, maybe pipe down and be glad that you haven’t had to educate yourself about it. FFS.

OP, my DD started to behave like this about school at 6/7. She seems overly attached to me but then could be “fine” when I wasn’t there. This even led school to insinuate, at drop off, that she was “manipulating” me. She showed, and still did, a real preference for me and showed her emotions to and around me. That is because she was masking around other people. I was her safe person.

To cut a long story short, my lovely, bright, kind, “normal but very anxious” little girl had a complete breakdown when she was 8. She was so unwell that she couldn’t go out or sleep and showed some really alarming behaviours and even talked about wanting to die. She has been supported by CAMHS and is still unable to attend school full-time although she is making progress.

We now know that she is autistic and was completely burnt out from trying to hold it together all the time. Her diagnosis report even explains the subtle signs that mean girls can be missed, and the effect that has on mental health.

There were a couple of things that stood out to be in your OP, might just be worth looking into autism and masking in girls:

Your DH is right. This is happening because you are allowing it to happen.

You are not teaching your daughter how to be emotionally resilient, which means she’s really going to struggle.

Stop indulging her spoilt behaviour. You’ll fuck her up.

She’s a pandemic kid.
I don’t think you can expect all the kids that have been through lockdowns and disruptions to be at the same stage socially as they might’ve been in past years.
I think some responses on the thread have been harsh OP.
If her behavior overall is good then it’s not that she’s being naughty.
She’s feeling insecure and it’s frustrating for you but it’s up to you to decide how to handle it next time. Come up with ideas and discuss them with your DH. Figure out a strategy and stick with the plan.

You don’t have to agree to handle it in a way you feel is too harsh, but you do need to come to an agreement and be on the same page as your DH or that will become an issue in itself.

Also, SEN or not, a child who is unable to self-regulate needs a trusted adult to help co-regulate them until they learn coping skills themselves.

You don’t teach someone to be “resilient” by abandoning them when they are distressed, or by “distracting” or “being firm.”

You've given her a role as the 'baby of the family' and she's fulfilling what you have taught her to do.

That's not fair on her or anybody else.

i think your dh is quite rite your babying her and she’s turning into a nightmare for it, you need to stop pandering to it because you are teaching her absolutely nothing. At 7 I would find this super annoying, my 4 year old would behave like this occasionally but my 7 year old doesn’t and would swiftly be told to stop acting like a baby and do as he was told

Op, it isn't clear whether it is tantrums or anxious crying. There have been a few kids in my children's classes who have been really anxious over their parents leaving them. They aren't badly behaved children at all but clearly emotional and anxious. I can relate as think this was me as a child (though I internalised it. I think you all need to understand what is going on in her head a bit more before you can address it properly and not have it manifest itself in other ways.

I would investigate autism, your dd sounds just like ds & we didn't get a diagnosis until he was 9.

I've got one of those, op. She's 8.5 now and gets upset a lot more easily and a lot more often than her siblings. She's a real home body, and likes things to stay the same. She hates being away from me overnight, for example, whereas the other 2 love it. She can't help but burst into very dramatic tears when upset.

She will also regularly tell me about times she felt really sad, nervous or scared in the past - she might not have had the words or maturity at the time to do anything except cry, but she remembers very vividly.

She can have episodes like you describe where she just keeps getting upset about something over and over. I don't see it as manipulation in any way. She genuinely finds feeling big feelings difficult.

I will always listen and help her deal with the feelings when she's upset about something, but I set limits. So after we've talked about it and faced up to the fact that whatever it is has to be the way it is and had our hugs etc, I've had to get very firm and close down any further upset and discussion. "I know you are upset/you don't like it. It's hard for you. We've talked about it and I know you understand why it needs to happen like this. We cannot talk about it anymore. I'm going to go do xyz now." I might suggest she draws a picture or writes something about what's going on in her head.

It's been hard, but she's getting better at parking the thing and accepting the rational reasoning and moving on. It has also helped a lot to talk about feelings in general (when she's not upset) and reassure her that it's normal to feel apprehensive, worried, anxious, etc. Everyone does. And talk about the ways to deal with it.

I think your DH is right, to an extent, in that you have to help her set a limit and find a way to move on. But I don't think it's fair to say its manipulation. It's tough to deal with, and you have my sympathy.

One last thing to mention is that my older dd goes completely silent when upset or angry. She cannot describe her feelings, which worries me more in the longer term. So, while she is less dramatic, I don't think it's necessarily better.

Are you the same poster whose DD kept talking in a baby voice and wondered why her extended family found it exasperating?

Feel very sorry for all those mn kids who are essentially getting told to 'man up'.

your dd is a child, she's trying to navigate her feelings . The best thing you can do is support her and allow her space to do so and try to help her build her confidence at dealing with change new things etc. that will be way more effective than telling her to stop having emotions. And that emotions are 'babyish' 🙄 try to do some detective work around why it's an issue and see if u can get to the bottom of it. And don't dismiss her feeling just because she's a child,there could be more happening than u realise.

It sounds like u are doing a great job 👏

Yes all the boomer kids that are in therapy now are there because their parents supported them 🙄

@autienotnaughty - I wondered if any these posters are the same ones who say it’s good to talk about mental health 🧐

Maybe they can pop back when they have adult DC who survive on anti-depressants/have problems with substance misuse/are in unhealthy relationships and have low self esteem, and talk about how their DC turned out “fine” because they “didn’t pander” to them.

Maybe their own DC will be shit parents who continue the same way, while convincing themselves: “It didn’t do me any harm”. Or, more hopefully, the will break the cycle and start to see their children as real people with emotional needs and worries of their own, rather than shutting them down and then using that as proof that their approach “works”, while their DC learn to shut up and internalise everything.

I can counter that with when my ds was 7 he was a manipulative little sod. Not every child is autistic fgs.

EXACTLY this!

Wow, @ZeroFuchsGiven , you can “counter that” 👏🏻

What? its completely true, my ds was an arsehole at 7 and would try these waterworks, he's not autistic, he's now a strapping 16 yo that grew out of that behaviour because I never pandered to it!

Mumsnet is becoming terrible for this:

Lazy husband with no motivation and a temper = could be autistic (no he's just a dick)

Manipulative child crying to get their own way = could be autistic (no just a manipulative child who has got away with that behaviour now thinks its normal)

Creepy neighbour who stares and makes you and your daughters feel uncomfortable using the garden =could be autistic (nope just a creepy perv taking the piss)

Strange co worker who won't leave you alone never shuts up and wants to know every aspect of your life = could be autistic (nope a just a nosy busy body who wants to know everything so she can gossip)

Honestly NOT EVERYONE IS AUTISTIC and even if they were it is NOT an excuse for shitty behaviour and everyone around them to pander to that shitty behaviour.

So the posters laying into the rest of us have decided this child is autistic then? Because I posted utilising the actual information given by the OP, none of which mentioned ASD.

What do you mean by boomer kids? The youngest boomers are now nearly 60. Very few, if any of them are in therapy. Are you talking about their Gen X or millennial kids? How many of them do we know are in therapy?

Supporting your kids is teaching them to be resilient, not letting them learn that crying is the magic key to getting what you want. How many mil threads do we see referring to “turning on the waterworks to get her own way”? It’s not an attractive trait.

Agree it's frustrating as hell that every single child on here is "possibly autistic" with absolutely no diagnostics at all. This kid is being a spoilt brat because her mother panders to her for hours on end giving her hugs none stop whilst she continues to tantrum for her own way. There is zero here that suggests autism ffs. Just because your autistic kid might behave in a similar way does not make every child autistic. Not a single thing op has said so far points to autism.

She is not autistic. Nobody has ever suggested that. She has a lot of friends and outside of the tines I mentioned, is very happy when she's at home with me and DH.
To answer someone's question, she isnt getting onto the floor and tantrumming. She just sits there and cries loudly, telling us over and over again that she wants us to take her to school or camp. It's really hard seeing your child in distress. I know this can't continue but it isn't easy seeing your child so sad.