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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think DH is being too harsh here?

213 replies

TheLostNights · 11/08/2022 11:55

DD is 7. Baby of the family.
DH thinks she manipulates me. For example she gets upset if I can't take her to school even though I never really have done because of work. She will have a long crying fit the night before or in the morning meaning I am often running late for work. It's not because she dislikes the event or person sje is left with, she just wants me or DH.
DH says she should have grown out of this now and that I need to stop pandering to it. Aibu to say she is still a little girl and it's natural for her to do this?

OP posts:
ChiefWiggumsBoy · 11/08/2022 20:47

God, why aren't you infuriated with this. I would have lost my temper by now. She just sits there and cries loudly, telling us over and over again that she wants us to take her to school or camp. She is manipulating you and you are falling for it.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 11/08/2022 20:52

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 11/08/2022 18:26

Also, SEN or not, a child who is unable to self-regulate needs a trusted adult to help co-regulate them until they learn coping skills themselves.

You don’t teach someone to be “resilient” by abandoning them when they are distressed, or by “distracting” or “being firm.”

This!

Im not saying it’s “normal” or desirable behaviour, but there’ll be a reason that needs to be dealt with, not just manipulating Mum for shits and giggles. A 7 yo wouldn’t normally want to be seen crying, for example, unless it was something really bad - they like to appear grown up even when they aren’t.

Find the reason and you can solve the problem. Just “being firm” won’t help her to become and emotionally secure adult.

And if the reason is, she just wants her own way? Not every action has a logical reason behind it - sometimes it really is 'just because'. Especially when you're 7 Hmm

And I'm sorry, but 'being firm' in some areas is needed. Because even emotionally secure adults need to understand that their every want and desire isn't going to be dealt with by understanding talks. Sometimes the answer is just No. And it's not a bad thing for kids to learn that. It's especially not bad to learn that when the situation they're railing against is something so innocuous as an aunty taking them to camp not mum or dad!

DillyDilly · 11/08/2022 20:54

Next time your DD starts crying, try telling her that you simply cannot bring her to school/camp because you need to go to work. Then walk out of the room and see what happens, chances are she will stop as soon as she sees there’s no audience and no-one is pandering to her.

Purplepatsy · 11/08/2022 21:01

autienotnaughty · 11/08/2022 18:55

Or mum is her safe place to show her feelings

Show quote history

She'll be showing her feelings to her 'safe space ' mum until she leaves home, if mum is so soft as to indulge her. Making mum late for work while she throws a strop is just bad behaviour that needs to be dealt with.
Mum should just be bright and matter of fact, and say, 'Have a good day, see you this afternoon.'

whiteroseredrose · 11/08/2022 21:19

snowqu33n · 11/08/2022 15:28

She’s a pandemic kid.
I don’t think you can expect all the kids that have been through lockdowns and disruptions to be at the same stage socially as they might’ve been in past years.
I think some responses on the thread have been harsh OP.
If her behavior overall is good then it’s not that she’s being naughty.
She’s feeling insecure and it’s frustrating for you but it’s up to you to decide how to handle it next time. Come up with ideas and discuss them with your DH. Figure out a strategy and stick with the plan.

You don’t have to agree to handle it in a way you feel is too harsh, but you do need to come to an agreement and be on the same page as your DH or that will become an issue in itself.

This. I can't believe how many people would effectively say tough tits to a distraught child.

When all is calm talk to her about why this has to happen. Finances, the importance of your jobs to everyone's life. But be as sympathetic as you are. I didn't like being fobbed off as a child either (and was a latchkey kid at her age for that reason). My DS found it mortifying having to talk to adults at that age, even ones he knew. He has turned out fine.

CremeEggsForBreakfast · 11/08/2022 21:22

OP, I too am on the "gentle" end of the parenting scale but if you sit with her "for hours" as she cries and shouts you are actually fuelling and feeding her distress.

At 7 she should have some idea of the difference between a "big" issue and a "small" issue. Aunty taking her to camp rather than you is a "small" issue. Not being able to find her shoes is a "small" issue. The death of a pet or her friend moving away are "big issues".

She's entitled to feel disappointed but she needs to learn what a proportionate reaction is. And it isn't hours-long tantrums. Imagine if we as adults cried when we couldn't find our favourite shoes! You teach her this by saying "DD, I know you're sad. It's so disappointing for you that I can't take you to camp. Aunty is here now though and you will be safe with her. You are allowed to be sad but you are not allowed to shout at us. Your bedroom is a good place to shout. I love you and you can come and find [whoever is in charge] when you are calm."

Anything more and you are telling her that this small thing is worth panicking about and worth the tears and drama. It must be because Mum is all worked up too!

Mischance · 11/08/2022 21:24

Someone else with a heart - at last!

My rule with children has always been to try and get inside their heads. It is not easy as we think more logically (in the main) but their experience of the world is shorter and they often have fears and anxieties that arise from that.

I also believe in being firm and setting clear boundaries; but here we have a child who is absolutely fine - at home, at school - but is behaving in a difficult way over this one thing. There will be a reason.

autienotnaughty · 11/08/2022 21:38

@Purplepatsy obviously mum should not be late for work, that can be managed. But I think the goal should be to be the person your child trusts with their emotions. It's not mollycoddling to help a child feel secure. If you were desperately upset and your dh told you to stop it and get over it as it's not acceptable. Would u consider that reasonable? Would u talk to ur dh in the future? If something significant was happening in your life would u tell him? Knowing your feelings are irrelevant to him. Children are not inferior, yes they need to be taught and given boundaries but that can be done from a supportive place or an unsupportive place and I know which gets better results.

SpeckofDustUponMySoul · 11/08/2022 21:52

Fucking hell, OP, you either have the patience of a Saint, or a total wet blanket, as there is no way I could ensure 'hours' of my child crying like this.
YOU are the adult. Take. Charge. And, that doesn't mean you have to be authoritarian or harsh, but equip yourself with the skills to support your child in moving beyond this behaviour.
I'm not suggesting she is throwing tantrums, manipulating you, spoilt etc, but you are doing her, yourself and your husband no favours by your namby pamby response to this.
You don't appear to have taken on any feedback from PPs and are still explaining how hard it is to see your 'baby' (she's 7, FFS) so 'sad'.
What is undesirable and age inappropriate behaviour now will be somewhat repugnant when she is nearing high school age.
You need to shut this shit down.

Mischance · 11/08/2022 23:09

.... and supposing this "shit" is simply fear? When a child does something that is inconvenient it is not always because they are being naughty and it is important to explore other possible reasons before jumping to this conclusion.

You could explain to her that you can see that something about the situation is upsetting her and you would like to understand and help her. You could also explain that this is something that she needs to do, but that you are happy to help her with anything about it that is worrying her so that it might be easier for her.

Stickworm · 11/08/2022 23:15

@TheLostNights you sound like a really lovely mum to a lucky little girl. 7 IS little! People seem to want children to grow up so quickly it’s bizarre. She is expressing her feelings to you as she trusts you, it might be difficult but if she trusts you to be there for her now she will always come to you with the big stuff when she’s older. She’s not trying to be difficult she just wants her mum and dad, there’s no need to be cold with her about it, empathy all the way!

Stickworm · 11/08/2022 23:16

@autienotnaughty 💯

username124952 · 12/08/2022 12:23

icelollycraving · 11/08/2022 13:03

I would be somewhere between the two parents. Dh is quite cold, rarely emotional. I am very emotional. I find I’m the one to really show love to Ds but also discipline.
Im surprised the majority are so clearly more of your dh’s mindset.
I think 7 is still little! She has learned though that this gets attention, so I’d start lessening it but not overnight.

I agree with this post. 7 is still very young with an immature brain.
It does sound like some kind of anxiety which may need addressing. My DD is 5 and she likes me doing drop off and picks ups which I can't always do. When I asked her why she says it's because she misses me at school and just wants to see me.
If she does ask why I can't pick her up that day and gets upset. I just explain I'm at work but arrange something that evening e.g we can do some crafts together tonight when we get home.
I would try just giving her a hug, explain you can't today but will do on X day/make plans that evening even if it's just to read her favourite book together but then end the conversation and not allow yourself to go around in circles.

Icanstillrecallourlastsummer · 12/08/2022 12:28

I am not for one second suggesting you should just tell your daughter to get on with it, but I wonder if you have developed a strange codependency dynamic here. Where she cries which is they rewarded by lots of attention and cuddles and her ultimately getting her own way.
You can be sympathetic and response to your child, while still holding boundaries. No boundaries isn't a good thing.

Purpleplaydohperson · 12/08/2022 12:50

I think it’s sad there is a lot of talk of ‘manipulating’ the op on this thread. I was an anxious child and I couldn’t help but cry when I was worried about something seemingly innocuous like this. I hated it and tried to stop myself but I couldn’t. If I had been given three wishes, my top wish would have been not to cry anymore, I just couldn’t help it. I had a list of lost things and losing shoes would have definitely provoked tears.
This was in the 90s so no help, no support from school etc.

Snaketime · 12/08/2022 13:07

TheLostNights · 11/08/2022 18:16

She is not autistic. Nobody has ever suggested that. She has a lot of friends and outside of the tines I mentioned, is very happy when she's at home with me and DH.
To answer someone's question, she isnt getting onto the floor and tantrumming. She just sits there and cries loudly, telling us over and over again that she wants us to take her to school or camp. It's really hard seeing your child in distress. I know this can't continue but it isn't easy seeing your child so sad.

She isn't actually sad though she is manipulating you and you are dragging it out and making it worse.
My DD8 is like yours OP and my DS4 has started copying her. You don't have to be cold, but you need to stop pandering to her. When she is crying because she wants you to take her to school just give her a big hug and whilst hugging her say "I know you want me to take you to school, I wish I could too, but I can't because of xyz" then give her a kiss and walk away. Do not engage more than that.

Stickworm · 12/08/2022 14:23

@Snaketime what do you think she is trying to gain from ‘manipulation’ rather than just wanting her mum and dad?

Stickworm · 12/08/2022 14:23

I find it so funny how many people on mumsnet forums seem to demonise children as if they’re all out to get us 😂

Softplayhooray · 12/08/2022 14:34

TheLostNights · 11/08/2022 12:21

But that's all I do. Sympathise, talk to her and hug her to show I understand. I agree it goes on too long, it's just hard to reason with her at times. DH's method just seems more cold. Sometimes it also happens when she can't find her favourite shoes to wear which I agree is not not age appropriate but a lot of the time it's because she wants us to stay. We have rarely used help from family before or friends as work has allowed us to do drop offs and pick ups so because things have changed, I think she is reacting to that.

Going against the grain here, but I think there is something else going on. Every kid is different and it sounds like some kind of anxiety, maybe manifesting as separation anxiety. OP I think you are doing the right thing by being reassuring if that's the case, and maybe it'd be a good idea to speak to the GP or investigate a bit further. Kids can suffer anxiety just like an adult and if she has it, comments like she's being babied, or entitled, are going to make it all a lot worse.

Softplayhooray · 12/08/2022 14:38

SpeckofDustUponMySoul · 11/08/2022 21:52

Fucking hell, OP, you either have the patience of a Saint, or a total wet blanket, as there is no way I could ensure 'hours' of my child crying like this.
YOU are the adult. Take. Charge. And, that doesn't mean you have to be authoritarian or harsh, but equip yourself with the skills to support your child in moving beyond this behaviour.
I'm not suggesting she is throwing tantrums, manipulating you, spoilt etc, but you are doing her, yourself and your husband no favours by your namby pamby response to this.
You don't appear to have taken on any feedback from PPs and are still explaining how hard it is to see your 'baby' (she's 7, FFS) so 'sad'.
What is undesirable and age inappropriate behaviour now will be somewhat repugnant when she is nearing high school age.
You need to shut this shit down.

Why so aggressive for a post about a 7 year old?

autienotnaughty · 12/08/2022 14:43

Stickworm · 12/08/2022 14:23

I find it so funny how many people on mumsnet forums seem to demonise children as if they’re all out to get us 😂

I think they have been watching the Midwich Cookoos 😂😂

VariationsonaTheme · 12/08/2022 14:59

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 11/08/2022 18:26

Also, SEN or not, a child who is unable to self-regulate needs a trusted adult to help co-regulate them until they learn coping skills themselves.

You don’t teach someone to be “resilient” by abandoning them when they are distressed, or by “distracting” or “being firm.”

This!

Im not saying it’s “normal” or desirable behaviour, but there’ll be a reason that needs to be dealt with, not just manipulating Mum for shits and giggles. A 7 yo wouldn’t normally want to be seen crying, for example, unless it was something really bad - they like to appear grown up even when they aren’t.

Find the reason and you can solve the problem. Just “being firm” won’t help her to become and emotionally secure adult.

Bring firm and calm is modelling the appropriate emotional response for the situation though, and that is how children learn to self-regulate.

She’s crying in order to control the situation, but sometimes, unfortunately especially when we’re children, we just have to do what other people tell us is happening.

Mischance · 12/08/2022 15:08

She’s crying in order to control the situation, but sometimes, unfortunately especially when we’re children, we just have to do what other people tell us is happening.

And why does she feel the need to control this situation? What is it about this specific thing that makes her so fearful? When you are afraid, you do try and control the situation so that the feared outcome does not happen.

Or are we to assume that she has a malevolent desire to control?

sweeneytoddsrazor · 12/08/2022 15:40

She may not be fearful, she may well have learned that crying gets her what she wants. If a toddler has a tantrum because a parent won't buy them a cake you deal with it by removing them from the situation, giving them a cuddle , telling them no, or other methods. What you don't do is a, buy the cake or b spend hours sat in the supermarket waiting for them to stop.

If the DD knows crying is going to get her mummy to take her to school or camp or mummy to spend hours sat with her then thats what she is going to do.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 12/08/2022 16:35

Purpleplaydohperson · 12/08/2022 12:50

I think it’s sad there is a lot of talk of ‘manipulating’ the op on this thread. I was an anxious child and I couldn’t help but cry when I was worried about something seemingly innocuous like this. I hated it and tried to stop myself but I couldn’t. If I had been given three wishes, my top wish would have been not to cry anymore, I just couldn’t help it. I had a list of lost things and losing shoes would have definitely provoked tears.
This was in the 90s so no help, no support from school etc.

There’s a lot of talk from both sides. Literally all of us are making assumptions based on what the OP is telling us.

I’m on the husband‘s side based on that.

Be honest - if you were anxious and crying because neither parent could take you to day camp, would it have helped if mum patted and shushed and there there’d you for hours? I suspect not.

There’s a middle ground between what OP is doing and suggestions to just completely ignore her.