Are all "naughty" children actually neurodivergent?

[Ponderingthemeaningoflife]

As the subject asks. The children in my life (friends, family, DC school peers, colleagues' children) fall into two camps - the ones who can be stubborn at home, but tend to behave fabulously for anyone who isn't their parents including at school.

And those who are challenging in many settings, don't like to conform, oppositional. So many of these are being referred for ADHD/Autism after a year or two at school, mine included.

Does anyone have any actual experience of "naughty" children (by naughty I mean doesn't do what they're asked, refusal to comply, cheeky, rude, attitude) who did eventually grow out of it?

@BiscoffSundae and @GreenWheat I absolutely agree and I know it's an unpopular opinion here. I'm not a fan of labels and I absolutely believe in conditions are a very real thing but I do wonder and think there's a fine line between having a condition and having some manners also. It's becoming way too common.

I say this with a DS who is on the hyper side and isn't the easiest child to entertain often says he's board literally not even awake 1 whole hour on a weekend sometimes.

But disapline is definitely lacking as well as manners in today's kids. I'm a 90s kid also.

know it's an unpopular opinion here

Actually, ableism is de rigeur here. Try making similar comments about any marginalized group other than autistic people and you’ll be banned before you can blink.

See the multiple threads which can be paraphrased to: “my husband is such a massive cunt I think he must be autistic”.

@thegreenlight your post describes my DS almost to the letter. And that’s exactly how I feel - how can he be a truly happy boy if he misbehaves like that? It has to be his way of communicating his discomfort?

To all those who’ve said I’m being ableist and implying all ND children are naughty, that’s not what I’ve done at all and I suggest you RTFT. Quite the opposite, I find it hard to believe that children misbehave that much just for the sake of it, and not for an underlying reason.

OP - sometimes NT children have a different way of misbehaving. Sneaky, winding others up, excluding on purpose. It’s hard to spot. ND children are what they are, they are loud, argumentative, disruptive. They know they will get in trouble but they can’t help it. What used to annoy me about DS is that he would play up, see my face and then ask ‘am I being good?’. I thought he did it to wind me up but he never does it now he’s medicated.

He actually came into the room the other day and out of nowhere said ‘Thank you for all you went through to get me my tablets, I feel happy and I like myself when I take them.’ Which is all the confirmation I need. You can’t win when you parent a ND child, so just parent the child you have, however that looks to everyone else.

You are the poster from the nd mumsnetters thread aren't you?

@thegreenlight my DS is also exactly as you describe in that last post - Sneaky, winding others up, excluding on purpose! I spot it because I'm his mum, also not sure how subtle he really is aged 6!

It's a reasonable question, OP. I've noticed that general naughtiness in children can't be discussed on here, without the possibility of ASD being raised.

My neurodivergent child WAS coping at school (ie masking) but a proper nightmare at home. Until lockdown where I guess they ran out of skill/ care/ patience with the 'typical' world where constant put downs and micro aggressions are supposed to be tolerated.

A LOT of NT children are absolute cunts in our experience of who is making life hell for my non NT children. But apparently as 'all' children are mean bastards, they're in the right and it's the ND ones that are sent to classes for CBT / anger management to change their thinking. Or is that too cynical?!