Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

[CookieDoughKid]

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

Why on earth have you volunteered to give her half of the government donation ( half is £175) and also not asked her to contribute to daily outgoing services/costs?

This is all on you. Nice gesture but I don’t think you thought it through.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy You’re absolutely right. I guess it’s not too late to change the maths as I haven’t handed her any money yet.

Because people have done what is completely alien to them.

No training. No prep. It was a lovely idea but an easy way out for the government. Sorry op and good luck.

Are you letting her take the piss out of you because war?

A lot of host's have offered part of the payment, that is very kind of you OP.

I understand your frustration it'd be hard not to feel aggrieved offering an excellent opportunity and being met with resistance.

I wouldn't continue the arrangement if they're causing tension in the home.

I'd bend over backwards with gratitude for someone who saved me from the street.

I encourage her to save a month deposit with first months rent and claim rental assistance.

Unfortunately we Irish/British are backwards in being forward whereas EE are more direct and not afraid to show if they're unhappy.

I help her find a place in the cheapest place in the UK.

Typos I would ' not I.

I feel sorry for your children. Their home life can't be very comfortable right now.

Sorry @CookieDoughKid you should have set boundaries at the start and explained they would have to pay for there own items. I think you massively judged and automatically thought they were poor and helpless. Saying that she sounds like she is taking you for all she can get and you have handed it to her on a plate.

It may be uncomfortable but you need to have a chat with her and put in boundaries and a time limit for her moving out. Not sure what advice to give about splitting the money as you have offered that now.

Wishing you lots of luck because she's already starting to make demands regarding your house ie not moving out until next year. You need to make it crystal clear that it's your house and rules.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?
I think it is your duty to point out that UC is not designed for her situation. She may well not be clear on the criteria in the UK.
In your situation I would be guiding her towards finding a suitable rental.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

If you help her apply you can inform the DWP that she is receiving income from her husband and has savings

I can empathise with her hesitancy to commit in the uk as well has holding back some money , which is probably just about enough to set up a permanent household once.

I also understand your frustration.

no harm in starting a conversation about her move out dates. Correct me if I misread, but it sounds like the source of your frustration is less about the money and more about feeling lack of understanding /gratitude for your significant contribution. She maybe feels less deserving than a family who fled with nothing or maybe you had visions of helping someone create a permanent life in the UKthat she doesn’t reciprocate. I doubt extra payment would make you feel better about the situation , and it might be more effective as an incentive to encourage her out.

Although it has been frustrating, I really admire what you have done - donating money is easy, but sharing your home with a stranger is so much more meaningful and complicated. It is okay to have a limit on that, and it sounds like you are reaching that limit

She needs to go. This is untenable and really unfair on your children. She can work or claim UC or stay on her arse supported by her husband back home or some other person willing to do it, her choice and not your responsibility or problem. The fact is you are kind and she is taking advantage of you. I host a Ukrainian guest myself, she has found work and I’d never put up with the situation you’ve described. What a bloody cheek being too idle to work or even claim UC and not contributing financially for things she uses. As for pledging all that money - it’s up to you but you’ll be out of pocket for no good reason. Wake up and smell the coffee.

@CookieDoughKid I feel for you, I really do. To be honest your story is the perfect example of why this government initiative was ill conceived to begin with. It sounds like you’re doing your best but really if you’re not the kind of person who would be well suited to say fostering troubled children then having someone from a war torn country was probably never going to be for you. It’s not your fault, I suspect many people made this mistake. It takes a lot of patience, compassion and determination to see something like this through, and even people well trained in these skills would struggle to hold that space for a stranger and their child.

Whether it’s looks like it from the outside or not, refugees tend to have very complex needs, there is going to be all sorts of turmoil happening for her and her daughter and the weight of your judgement is probably bruising her pride massively on top of that. It was a really generous thing for you to step up and try this, and 6 months is good by any standard. Honestly from what you’ve posted it sounds like you are in over your head and need to see if she can be rehoused somewhere else. Just be honest, tell her that it’s been harder to share your space than you were expecting and that you don’t think you can do it anymore.
Please resist any temptation to bring her attention to what you see as her laziness, her lack of generosity/reciprocity, her failure to live up to your standards or your fathers refugee-specific standards. I’ve no doubt it’s annoying but it’s probably also partially you own defence mechanism against feeling guilt about not being able to manage and it could be so disheartening for her to even guess that’s what you’re thinking. I’m sure she’s putting on a brave face and even vaguely alluding to it being down to her flawed character would like be a very tough blow.

You keep making these decisions that come from a good place but are utterly bonkers and put you and your children at a disadvantage. Take a leaf from her book and put yourselves first. You're risking making your children resentful, you have forced these strangers on them in their own home so that you feel you have helped Ukrainians. I'm sorry but I'm always baffled at people complaining about their Ukrainian refugees... what did you expect?! They are strangers from a very different culture with their own personalities and habits coming from a war torn country... it's not difficult to see it was a recipe for disaster.
You have to ask her to leave.

I think you need to consider your own children.

I think you can also un-offer the money OP as you didn't know she's ok for money, so you offered it under other circumstances, which weren't the case. Just say effectively that things have changed.

I wouldn't wait that long either.

I think you have done enough hun . Honestly this whole scheme was not set up fir success and I doubt most families will make it to even 6 months as it’s so hard in hosts . Be honest with her . Set a time ( a month or 2 ) but do not budge !

@Circleofshells I see OP and her kids and their feelings/wellbeing as just as important as some person with quite a bit of savings who's been blagging off them.

You made a commitment of 6 months. After 4 months give her 2 month's written notice. She may not be eligible for UC as she has savings. That will be up to her to sort out although you might aid her. Tell her she needs to start looking for houses to rent as it will often take 6 weeks to go through vetting, referencing and to prove income. Advise her she will find it hard to rent if she does not have a job. You have done your bit OP, you offered a home when they were in dire need. Now she has an opportunity to sort out a job and accommodation for herself. She can use some of her savings as her deposit but will be unlikely to secure a rental property with no income.

@OldFan Good for you, I think I would prioritise the needs of the refugees personally, but I wouldn’t expect anyone to do that more than they are comfortable with in any case. It’s probably obvious from my post that I worry that the descriptors OP is using and the way she’s framing the situation runs the risk of doing more harm than good if expressed to her guest. I think “blagging” is a bit dismissive, I’m sure that woman has her own side of the story. UK is really not particularly a hospitality culture, and if you come from one that is (not sure if Ukraine is) it can be very hard to navigate people’s generosity, and limits to it. It’s likely a big cultural difference going on rather than OP being scammed.

I think not wanting a permanent job or a flat of her own is fairly understandable. It’s admitting that the war is going to drag on for ages longer, and relinquishing that last bit of optimism.

I have a colleague who is a Ukrainian refugee. She’s very worldly, has worked in international businesses in China, Canada, various parts of Europe… she’s used to moving and setting up a home for 6 months or so. But she admitted to me here that she doesn’t want to buy furniture, because of what it would represent. Her DH (also a young professional in tech who left Ukraine several weeks before the war started and is living with her) hasn’t even been willing to adjust to the time change… and we’re in Canada! He thinks that getting over the jet lag “isn’t worth it” because they’ll be going home soon. It’s heart breaking.

Of course, thinking about it this way doesn’t make your living situation any easier…

I do think that if she’s buying her own food, asking your guest to contribute to washing powder etc feels a bit tight. But I do think it would be fair to give her a deadline for moving out that is sooner than next June.

If it's not working out, especially between the kids I think it's fair enough and it's a long notice period. Perhaps help with initial contacts with someone that can assist them to find alternate accommodation/another host.

If she hasn't worked in a long time due to being a SAHP it must be quite a challenge getting back into working, let alone trying to do so in a foreign country and having fled from a war . It sounds like she hasn't got much self confidence & has been quite sheltered if has always let her husband or others organise things for her, it's not easy to change that and perhaps why she isn't keen to move out and rent alone till her husband can join her.

It's kind of you to save 1/2 the payment as a deposit but it would make more sense to suggest some funds their share of groceries if that is making you feel resentful. She maybe a bit of a CF but It can also be hard to know what is expected if its not stated and maybe she thinking it maybe offending the host if she starts buying these more household items if they were only told to buy own food at start.

I don't think it should matter about what savings they have back home as she may not have access to that money, loads of MN posts suggest joint money but turns out husband actually controls what can be spent. I think normally can have 6 or 14k in savings before benefits restricted anyway and $10k sounds a lot but wouldn't go that far really with setting up a home & life in UK so would need to be sure that's where they want to settle. Is there not even a scheme to help the refugees with rental deposits? I think benefit claiments can sometimes get loans or hardship funds via councils.

I would also retract the offer of the money.

I'm so glad I didn't sign up for this (not even) half baked government scheme. It's not that I have no sympathy for the refugees, I do. I'm just not made of the right stuff to participate.

Put yourself and your children first. Their home has been imposed upon and they sound uncomfortable and resentful, as would I.

I find it strange that you’re finding her lacking but underline your superiority by declaring that half of £350 is £150. Peculiar thing to get wrong. Maybe she isn’t hopeless after all. Maybe she is responsible for many things normally, maybe even all their budgeting but is experiencing culture shock, the language barrier or war trauma as insuperable?

There are so many ways in which this is like looking in a mirror. I've name changed because I'm going to forward this to my MIL.

They invited a mum and her 14 yr DD to stay with them, and SO many of the issues you mention are exactly the same. Exactly. Expectations, manner, all of it!

They've gone home. The mum couldn't actually function without her dh. That was their decision (or actually the husband's decision). I think it's also easy to underestimate the impact of living in an ex communist country. Not for everyone, but for some.

There are so many issues that don't get discussed before hand, and people do phds in refugee settlement... it's a vast subject.

You need to decide about the money, but meanwhile get them moved on asap, explain that they need to rent, and as they have assets, you cannot support them anymore within the house. If they've been trying hard to be pleasant then you could still have them over for dinner etc.? Staying in limbo isn't actually helpful to them, between war and covid they've been stuck for so long, they need to make a move of some kind, to start trusting the system, feel comfortable with their new life, however long it's going to last.

The impact of having this going on in your own home is not to be underestimated. With no training, and no idea of what was going to be the reality, a generous heart isn't enough.