Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

[CookieDoughKid]

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

PS, I absolutely don't think this is about blagging, it's a huge cultural difference, and culture shock. I can understand being very frightened going into a new world, especially if you've never been responsible for your own life, and either the state or your husband makes most of the decisions, and has done for generations. Maybe think of it a bit like time travel. Unless they've been abroad much, or lived in the heart of a major city, just seeing stuff on TV doesn't prep you for this move.

Just because they're white, and speak some English, means bugger all.

As your own children are teenagers, are they due to be taking exams too? Their needs also have to be taken into account. When you say they don't get on with your guest's DD, is it that they like different things or are there disagreements or even quarrels? Since your guest's DD is going to take exams next summer, it is reasonable for her to have a settled background, so either they need to have a new place for the start of the next school year, or you need to consider whether you could cope with having them stay until the exams next summer. It must be hard enough being away from home and at risk of losing everything back home on top of exam stress. Giving notice now would enable her to find somewhere else in good time (but she'll need to demonstrate an income of her own in order to make the necessary arrangements).

You have been very generous hosting a refugee family, but in the circumstances I think you need to say that at the end of six months the arrangements must change. That could mean she should be looking for somewhere else to stay and/or she needs to be looking for a job (even if part-time) as you can no longer offer a contribution from the government funding, or some other arrangement. As@Willowthewispy says, you need to set boundaries. The longer she stays, the more stress your own family will have, and the more difficult it will be for her to move on; her DD will then be thinking about taking A levels, for example.

What qualifications does she have? As she is a SAHM, she might find it difficult working when English is not her first language, particularly if she does not have a background in a particular discipline. Perhaps she did not work before she had her DD?

Although her husband has been supporting her financially, is he still in a position to do so? Is he still working, or is he in military service?

You say you don't rely on your husband financially and never have - what impact is hosting this family having on him?

As your own father was a refugee you have a much better understanding of what it must be like to be a refugee than many people, but you need to achieve a balance between your own family life and what you can offer another family.

I think if shes never been independent before (and they can get married and have kids extremely young in ukraine) it's been extremely hard for her already to get to another country. Some people just arnt really as capable as others and that's fine, if her husband supports her and they are happy with that setup that's their right and it's also fair she doesnt claim universal credit with savings and if she doesnt want a job.

I'm not too sure why your kids have decided they dont like theirs?

Just ask her to buy a few more things or make a shopping list.

Listen to your gut and your DCs / family needs OP.

Also consider the emotional needs of the 15 year old Ukrainian DD rather than the financial needs/wants of her parents.

What does not getting on with your DCs look like on a daily basis? Is there tension, active hostility or just that they don’t hang out? If it’s the latter then a conversation on behaviour expectations with them all needs to be had.

Do not commit to a further 11 months to the end of GCSES - it will end in tears before that for all of you and for the DD it would be best if she was settled elsewhere sooner rather than later to prepare for mocks etc.

Otherwise it will be very disruptive.

Take comfort that this is the better decision for the longer term for everyone to assuage any guilt you may feel or any push back from the mother.

The minimum commitment for the scheme by the host was for 6 months.

I would have a review meeting to say that’s when you need her to be moving on - so October.

Then outline the process in the U.K., stating it will take x time and y amount of money and signpost her to online info / services etc.

Then support and encourage her to make this happen - knowing that this will be best for you all - with a weekly update meeting where you can see she has taken steps to meet the deadline.

I would pick your battles carefully and wouldn’t nit pick about washing powder or communicate your personal judgements on work ethic (she is actually working and not claiming benefits) as this will likely backfire in bad feeling and likely make the atmosphere more intolerable for you.

You could also review the commitment to the additional £150 / month you were going to share with her.

You could choose to donate it instead to a charity / another family in more need if she has sufficient resources or say that you miscalculated the extra costs and will need it especially with utility costs rocketing - or you could keep to your commitment and offer it as a contribution to a rental deposit.

I think that it is a cross roads for many refugees. Many thought it would be over by the autumn and they would be going home soon but it looks like the reality is for at least a year away rather than the intended months. Think that they are just coming to terms with that.

You have done a great thing and supported a family in dire need at a critical time. They are physically safe now so don’t let resentment build to ruin the wonderful experience you have given them - but just be clear what next steps are. Calmly and practically.

I think you should give her notice to leave. A long notice if you can tolerate her presence for much longer would be kind. You can’t be left feeling uncomfortable and resentful in your own home indefinitely. That isn’t good for you and it isn’t good for your guests but many of these problems were reasonably foreseeable.

British society is incredibly negative towards those who don’t fit the mould and not working when your only child is secondary school age doesn’t fit the British mould. And while British people are very generous at giving money to charities, hospitality is not something the nation is known for. People don’t like sharing their homes with anyone, even relatively close family, for more than a few days, so by sharing with strangers for almost three months, you’ve probably done more than most Brits could or would.

By the way, 10,000 dollars in life savings is really not very much money, and it will be exhausted much quicker in the U.K. than in Ukraine, so it seems quite off to be resentful that the family are trying to protect their savings. What they are doing is just human nature, as is resistance to external pressure to changing the way you live your life.

Changing behaviour is difficult for many people. Having to deal with a sudden war and then being expected to suddenly become a full time working parent in a strange country after not working for so long is going to be a shock to the system. If she sees she has no choice she will have to get used to the idea but right now she still thinks she has some choices. That’s not your problem. Give her notice and she and her husband will have to come up with a new plan.

In your place, I would take the emotion out of this situation now that you had a vent. Sit down grown up chat - cite cost of living to retract the pledge of money. And arrangements not working for your kids, help her with looking for rental. You’ll have no guilt knowing she is being supported by her husband and you have done initial set up in the UK

You don't have to have anyone in your house that you don't feel comfortable with. I think perhaps direct her to the local council's housing department.

However I would like to correct some misunderstandings about Universal Credit. Anyone can apply as long as they have less then £16,000 savings but it will affect what they receive. However, the first £6,000 is not taken into account. You can of course choose which jobs you are applying for. No one is expected to apply for every applicable job going.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Yeah, 10,000 usd is not very much, especially when the future is so uncertain, her DH could lose his job or even die, their property could be destroyed, and she will have to rebuild her entire family's life after a war. I'm not surprised that she is trying to protect this small piece of safety.

Nothing wrong with being a SAHM or depending on your spouse. Presumably this worked well for them and they didn't ask for a war to disrupt their life.

Not surprising that she would find it difficult to settle in a job under the circumstances, in a foreign country and with a lack of experience.

You offered to save the money for her, and can presumably afford to do so, so you can't really blame her for that.

Nonetheless, I think it's going to be difficult for you to release this judgement of her, so it's probably best to ask her to leave.

I thought the £350 was meant to cover the extra expenses like washing powder, electricity etc?

It's a tricky situation, because her daughter is now settled in school. How likely is it that they will be able to rent somewhere near enough for the daughter's schooling not to be interrupted? But at the end of the day, you've got to prioritise your own family.

I strongly believe it is not a cultural differences (I'm from Eastern Europe too). It's all about your expectations. What did you expect? That life with people taken from war zone will be nice and comfortable? I really don't understand why Brits, who took Ukrainian families expecting them to work like horses with smile on their faces. They saw A WAR and probably 99% have some issues now.
Our neighbours experiencing very similar situation right now and complaining every single day.
Want to be a hero? Think twice.
There is no anger on my post, I really want you to think how realistic are your thoughts and expectations when you host people who lost almost everything in their lifes.

If you’re the type of person who is going to tot up what someone staying with you is using and have strong opinions on them getting work two months after fleeing their war torn country, you’re not well suited to hosting refugees.

Also, I'll never understand Government's idea to drop £350 and expect that everything will be fine.
It's not about money it's about their support and integration. Did you notice that lots of them leaving UK and coming back to Ukraine? Not because they missed their country, they feeling totally confused and not welcomed here.

Use the £150’s as a deposit for the new home you will help her find.

She would not be entitled to UC due to her savings. I work in college where we have had several women in this situation, husbands supporting them financially whilst they are in the UK, lots of savings

IMO if the husband is still working and not fighting, it is safe enough for the wives to still be in the country. I appreciate the situation could change rapidly, but this seems like an abuse of the system.

why did you think they would have no savings? Surely they were just a ‘normal’ family pre-war! $10,000 is not really that much for someone’s life savings. It seems strange to me you mention she is a SAHM and this seems to be such a cause of tension for you… It’s a lot to ask of someone to flee war, live with strangers and then also work in the new country quite soon on. If you were in the same position would you be so capable of jumping up back on your feet? Don’t underestimate how hard it is to work in a country where you are ‘foreign’.
Agree you shouldn’t be giving her half the money that is meant for you. I think the best thing you can do now is keep the money that’s meant for you, and explain there’s a date this will end and help her plan for after. Could you seek some help from anywhere to further help her plan for somewhere else to live? Would she consider working for herself doing cleaning or something ‘freelance’? Good luck.. I think you should see if there’s a way you can help her move on because this won’t be nice for you or her or the kids! X

Agree with a pp, you don't sound like the kind of person who should have welcomed a refugee family in the first place. You would be keeping £200 per month of the government's £350 (more than half), surely the purpose of that money is to cover the cost of things like loo roll not for you to make profit as a landlord. I don't think many people would be in a position to get a job within weeks in a foreign country after such total life disruption. You've made a mistake taking on a refugee family so you need to take responsibility to sort it, not just ditch them.

I would blame cost of living crisis and say you can no longer afford to give her half the money. Explain that you have had an energy bill through etc.
I think when someone hasn’t struggled or had to work hard for their money they don’t appreciate it’s value. She probably doesn’t even realize that she’s taking the piss.

A friend is hosting a Ukrainian woman and a couple of children and is struggling with many of the same issues. Especially the reluctance to fork out for sundries. You would not be unreasonable nor unkind to give her notice that she needs to find her own accommodation when the six months are up. She has the money and you are enabling her to keep that while spending yours.

Also, think about yourself in her position - do you speak other language? Not little bit, but properly? I bet no. In Eastern Europe we don't need English, except you work in capital or have posh high paid job. Imagine yourself in other country, where you are able to speak only very basic.
Honesty, my blood is boiling now and I'm feeling really sorry for that family. Like I mentioned before, my neighbours are in the same situation and they expecting family to learn English in 3 weeks! It took me 2 years and I'm still doing lots of mistakes, it's not that easy as it looks darling.

This. Do not put your kids through this. They didn't choose to live like this. She sounds like a big CF and taking advantage of you. Tbh I would be immediately serving her notice once I found out about her savings. And she plans to collect benefits? Don't hand over the money you have saved for her.

I really think you need to practice a bit more tolerance.

A stable place to stay is likely more important to someone who has just fled a war zone than the £150/month you’ve thought would be good to give her.

I understand this is was a really big step for you and generous to offer. I think you should stick with that impulse and try and learn to take a step back. You are regretting it not because it’s really so awful living with her but because you are judging her character and finding her unworthy. That’s not really fair on her.

She isn’t taking you for a ride. She isn’t being unreasonable. She hasn’t behaved the way you expected her to because she’s not as poor as you thought she was going to be. But she’s still a refugee, running from a war that has killed many of her fellow citizens and is likely to kill many more. It’s changed everything she knew about her future just a few months ago. It’s dragged her with her daughter, to another country away from her home, most of the people she knew, and her husband. She’s struggling, not because of money (at least not yet) and what she needs is some stability while everything rages around her.

If she were pushed to her knees she probably would end up taking any job going. It’s a brutal way to have to get by and outcomes for refugees who are pushed into those sorts of situations are often not good. It’s dehumanizing and has a long lasting emotional impact. Demanding people be destitute before they can be helped tends to make it much harder for them to get back on their feet. Of course many manage it, like your father seems to have, but fewer do as well as those who get support while they’re still standing.

You get money from the government surely that covers the tin foil and dishwasher tablets?

What you have done is hard and generous but please be a little less judgemental of this woman. Her husband is in a horrific situation in a war zone and she is trying to cook clean and be a parent in someone else's home. In a home where her child...who is a refugee ..is disliked.

She has hardly been with yoi for very long and is being judged for not having a job. She had never worked and is expected to change her life to meet your view of the ideal refugee as performed by your father. Did your father have a wife to look after his children?

Let her adjust to this life before you judge her. You are being paid to support her.

10000 dollars is fuck all when it is the only security you have in a world where everything you know has collapsed.

Of course she doesn't want the fear of paying rent when her husband could lose his job any minute. She is cooking and paying for her food. She is pleasant. Stop judging her

If you can't cope with this thst is fine but do give her a lot of notice.

Cannot believe the spiteful little comments here about ensuring UC know aboit her savings. This is a family who have seen their lives completely destroyed and may never come home again. Just try and imagine it happening to you for a single minute.

Imagine your English city bombed..soldier's raping your friends and family..imagine your entire life gone and stranded with strangers in a new country coming to grips with this horror and in a new language.

Putting all the other issues aside, your kids aren't happy. That is the most important thing. They didn't choose this, you did. It's really wrong to make them Stick out a situation that they didn't ask for.

It would be much more uncomfortable if we were at war, which could easily happen. I think it's a good lesson to be honest. They might not get along but it's a case of survival for them and I imagine the mother and daughter are probably quite traumatised.

Well put!