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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

542 replies

CookieDoughKid · 30/07/2022 00:47

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

OP posts:
FirewomanSam · 30/07/2022 07:10

I really admire you for doing this and really feel for your situation. It can’t be easy at all.

That said, your post gives the impression (to me anyway) that your attitude to your guests has really changed ever since you learned about their savings. I’m not saying there weren’t other problems there before, but your feelings of ‘taking the piss’ seem to have really crystallised when you learned they have $10k in the bank. I think that’s quite unreasonable and that’s the part where your attitude could maybe do with reframing.

They have fled from a war zone, leaving their husband and father behind. They’re in a strange country and biding their time until they can go home and be reunited as a family. That’s why they need help and sympathy, it isn’t a requirement that they also be financially ‘poor’ to get it. If they use up all their savings on rent over here then they’ll have suffered a huge financial loss as a result of the war, through no fault of their own. I can see why they would want to avoid that for as long as they possibly can.

I’m not saying don’t make any changes, I’m not saying you should put her up forever and of course you need to do what’s best for your own family too. But when deciding what to do and in your conversations with her, I’d try to decouple your feelings about the $10k from all the other issues you’ve outlined. She isn’t ‘taking the piss’ or faking her need for help and support just because she’s financially better off than you’d initially assumed.

Galvanisethis · 30/07/2022 07:10

Mally100 · 30/07/2022 06:58

This. Do not put your kids through this. They didn't choose to live like this. She sounds like a big CF and taking advantage of you. Tbh I would be immediately serving her notice once I found out about her savings. And she plans to collect benefits? Don't hand over the money you have saved for her.

Show quote history

A CF? I'm so shocked that this poor woman would viewed this way. She's probably deeply traumatised and trying to cope in a foreign country where she doesn't want to be and making sure her daughter is ok. How can people be so short sighted - THIS COULD BE YOU!

Crunchyb · 30/07/2022 07:11

I hadn’t realised that the government is paying £350 every month to hosts (rather than a one-off payment). I’m now not sure why you’re complaining about money, OP. I doubt she and her daughter are costing you more than £350 a month. It is now clear that you just want her gone and everything she does or doesn’t do will be irritating to you from this point onwards. This isn’t aimed at you OP because you don’t seem to be motivated by money, but I can see the monthly £350 attracting the wrong sort of host.

Autumnwater87 · 30/07/2022 07:13

I’m sorry I wouldn’t focus on how much savings she has. Is she from somewhere that is now occupied? Has she lost all her possessions? Think how much you would need to set up a home again, I’m not surprised she wants to keep it. How is the husband funding her? Is he fighting in Ukraine or still able to work out there. If it’s the latter I would be asking for additional money to contribute to the daily household items.

However i thought that the hosting was a 6 months anyway? Does your funding for hosting stop after 6months? If so you do need a frank discussion.

unfortunately a lot of people generously helped out with a lack of foresight into how it would play out in reality.

olympicsrock · 30/07/2022 07:18

I think you have done a wonderful thing but have miscalculated the cost of living and also the stress on your children . 6 months is a very long time. I don’t thing it is fair to ask your children to have guests for longer.

I also think that she needs to be willing to work if her husband cannot support her.

Sit her down now and give her notice that she will need to go after 6 months. Tell her that with the cost of living increases you will not be able to give her part of the grant as you had underestimated the addiitonal costs ( washing tablets, household products etc.
She will be sad but don’t not do this. The more notice to leave , make plans the easier it will be for her.
do not feel guilty for a second

Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime · 30/07/2022 07:19

waterrat · 30/07/2022 07:02

You get money from the government surely that covers the tin foil and dishwasher tablets?

What you have done is hard and generous but please be a little less judgemental of this woman. Her husband is in a horrific situation in a war zone and she is trying to cook clean and be a parent in someone else's home. In a home where her child...who is a refugee ..is disliked.

She has hardly been with yoi for very long and is being judged for not having a job. She had never worked and is expected to change her life to meet your view of the ideal refugee as performed by your father. Did your father have a wife to look after his children?

Let her adjust to this life before you judge her. You are being paid to support her.

10000 dollars is fuck all when it is the only security you have in a world where everything you know has collapsed.

Of course she doesn't want the fear of paying rent when her husband could lose his job any minute. She is cooking and paying for her food. She is pleasant. Stop judging her

If you can't cope with this thst is fine but do give her a lot of notice.

Cannot believe the spiteful little comments here about ensuring UC know aboit her savings. This is a family who have seen their lives completely destroyed and may never come home again. Just try and imagine it happening to you for a single minute.

Imagine your English city bombed..soldier's raping your friends and family..imagine your entire life gone and stranded with strangers in a new country coming to grips with this horror and in a new language.

Absolutely agree with this.

Makeitwork44 · 30/07/2022 07:21

OldFan · 30/07/2022 01:52

I think you can also un-offer the money OP as you didn't know she's ok for money, so you offered it under other circumstances, which weren't the case. Just say effectively that things have changed.

I wouldn't wait that long either.

Agreed

Autumnwater87 · 30/07/2022 07:23

waterrat · 30/07/2022 07:02

You get money from the government surely that covers the tin foil and dishwasher tablets?

What you have done is hard and generous but please be a little less judgemental of this woman. Her husband is in a horrific situation in a war zone and she is trying to cook clean and be a parent in someone else's home. In a home where her child...who is a refugee ..is disliked.

She has hardly been with yoi for very long and is being judged for not having a job. She had never worked and is expected to change her life to meet your view of the ideal refugee as performed by your father. Did your father have a wife to look after his children?

Let her adjust to this life before you judge her. You are being paid to support her.

10000 dollars is fuck all when it is the only security you have in a world where everything you know has collapsed.

Of course she doesn't want the fear of paying rent when her husband could lose his job any minute. She is cooking and paying for her food. She is pleasant. Stop judging her

If you can't cope with this thst is fine but do give her a lot of notice.

Cannot believe the spiteful little comments here about ensuring UC know aboit her savings. This is a family who have seen their lives completely destroyed and may never come home again. Just try and imagine it happening to you for a single minute.

Imagine your English city bombed..soldier's raping your friends and family..imagine your entire life gone and stranded with strangers in a new country coming to grips with this horror and in a new language.

Exactly this

BorderlineBagpuss · 30/07/2022 07:27

I would struggle to share our home with anyone…. We are just not like that. You are to be commended for your generosity. I think a couple of things :

  • this feels like an expectations / communications issue - you expected them to be penniless, but why would that be the case. You expected her to get to work immediately, but perhaps she has never worked and is struggling psychologically to adjust. Not all refugees thrive like your father or my parents did.
  • your children are more important in their experience of a shared home than you - you have more life experience and can frame it - you need to put them first and find out why they are unhappy and solve this first
  • don’t judge the 10K savings too harshly. They have that for a rainy day - guess what, there was a rainy day, which means there could be another. That 10k will be there in their heads for rebuilding when they are all reunited. I am quite sure they are not intending to take the piss.
  • don’t let them stay just for the daughters exams. As much as you can sympathise with this request your kids come first and life between now and then might be so much harder, it would be better for them to leave. So put time into helping them move out.
Scoobygang7 · 30/07/2022 07:29

Meklk · 30/07/2022 06:24

I strongly believe it is not a cultural differences (I'm from Eastern Europe too). It's all about your expectations. What did you expect? That life with people taken from war zone will be nice and comfortable? I really don't understand why Brits, who took Ukrainian families expecting them to work like horses with smile on their faces. They saw A WAR and probably 99% have some issues now.
Our neighbours experiencing very similar situation right now and complaining every single day.
Want to be a hero? Think twice.
There is no anger on my post, I really want you to think how realistic are your thoughts and expectations when you host people who lost almost everything in their lifes.

We have taken in a 22 year old young lady. As with anyone, it's not always about culture, it's about them as a person. Whatever they have been through. Our guest was captured along with her mother and brother by Russian army for three weeks. They only escaped due to the army men, becoming ill as they were digging around in the ground, which is extremely close to chornobyl.

She is currently wanting to stay to attend university. However, that is her choice. We've been trying to get her to do things she wants to do, that would make her happy. However, this is difficult for her as she feels she shouldn't be doing things that make her happy because her country is at war. We've tried to explain that, her mother sent her here not only to be safe but to live. Which includes doing things that cause happiness.

She has offered to pay for some shopping when we've been shopping. I have refused as due to her having been a full time student she wasn't entitled to UC. The exchange rate is ridiculous it's just over 44 hryvna to £1. She has after trying so hard, got job.

Unfortunately everyone other family we've met that has taken in a guest. They all have money and live in massive houses. We don't have that, we do apologise that we can't offer what the others do. She does say that she is happy here. Although obviously as with probably most refugees, she's is hoping they win and can go home soon. It's a massive culture shock, on top of likely PTSD from what they've witness and been through.

Taking in a refugee was never going to be easy.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 30/07/2022 07:31

I think you should be glad that they have savings and can support themselves, it makes it a lot easier to ask them to leave.
She is probably keen on staying more as she gets help navigating the English system , you can stress that you’ll help her once she leaves with utilities etc, once the six months is up.

Plmoknijb123 · 30/07/2022 07:37

Please just give her notice and tell her to leave. Your children come first.

Notfancyfree · 30/07/2022 07:38

Circleofshells · 30/07/2022 01:39

@CookieDoughKid I feel for you, I really do. To be honest your story is the perfect example of why this government initiative was ill conceived to begin with. It sounds like you’re doing your best but really if you’re not the kind of person who would be well suited to say fostering troubled children then having someone from a war torn country was probably never going to be for you. It’s not your fault, I suspect many people made this mistake. It takes a lot of patience, compassion and determination to see something like this through, and even people well trained in these skills would struggle to hold that space for a stranger and their child.

Whether it’s looks like it from the outside or not, refugees tend to have very complex needs, there is going to be all sorts of turmoil happening for her and her daughter and the weight of your judgement is probably bruising her pride massively on top of that. It was a really generous thing for you to step up and try this, and 6 months is good by any standard. Honestly from what you’ve posted it sounds like you are in over your head and need to see if she can be rehoused somewhere else. Just be honest, tell her that it’s been harder to share your space than you were expecting and that you don’t think you can do it anymore.
Please resist any temptation to bring her attention to what you see as her laziness, her lack of generosity/reciprocity, her failure to live up to your standards or your fathers refugee-specific standards. I’ve no doubt it’s annoying but it’s probably also partially you own defence mechanism against feeling guilt about not being able to manage and it could be so disheartening for her to even guess that’s what you’re thinking. I’m sure she’s putting on a brave face and even vaguely alluding to it being down to her flawed character would like be a very tough blow.

What a well thought out reply

Notfancyfree · 30/07/2022 07:41

The way the government just passed the buck is such a massive piss take

Newestname002 · 30/07/2022 07:47

@Autumnwater87

However i thought that the hosting was a 6 months anyway? Does your funding for hosting stop after 6months? If so you do need a frank discussion.

According to the Gov guidance website
www.gov.uk/guidance/homes-for-ukraine-scheme-frequently-asked-questions

The ‘thank you’ payment is limited to one payment per residential address. You will continue to receive payments for as long as you sponsor somebody and for up to 12 months.
🌹

daretodenim · 30/07/2022 07:47

Circleofshells · 30/07/2022 01:39

@CookieDoughKid I feel for you, I really do. To be honest your story is the perfect example of why this government initiative was ill conceived to begin with. It sounds like you’re doing your best but really if you’re not the kind of person who would be well suited to say fostering troubled children then having someone from a war torn country was probably never going to be for you. It’s not your fault, I suspect many people made this mistake. It takes a lot of patience, compassion and determination to see something like this through, and even people well trained in these skills would struggle to hold that space for a stranger and their child.

Whether it’s looks like it from the outside or not, refugees tend to have very complex needs, there is going to be all sorts of turmoil happening for her and her daughter and the weight of your judgement is probably bruising her pride massively on top of that. It was a really generous thing for you to step up and try this, and 6 months is good by any standard. Honestly from what you’ve posted it sounds like you are in over your head and need to see if she can be rehoused somewhere else. Just be honest, tell her that it’s been harder to share your space than you were expecting and that you don’t think you can do it anymore.
Please resist any temptation to bring her attention to what you see as her laziness, her lack of generosity/reciprocity, her failure to live up to your standards or your fathers refugee-specific standards. I’ve no doubt it’s annoying but it’s probably also partially you own defence mechanism against feeling guilt about not being able to manage and it could be so disheartening for her to even guess that’s what you’re thinking. I’m sure she’s putting on a brave face and even vaguely alluding to it being down to her flawed character would like be a very tough blow.

This post says it all.

Beautiful3 · 30/07/2022 07:49

YouYou'already been more than generous. I'd tell her that I would no longer be giving her half, because the costs of food/fuel/gas and electricity has gone up. Give her a date that she needs to be out by. You've done more than enough. She is not helping herself. She needs to stand on her own 2 feet now.

SophieHasOneQuestion · 30/07/2022 07:51

You are very kind Op. However, it is your duty to put your children and yourself first.

CharlotteOH · 30/07/2022 07:53

You don’t want her there

She can afford to rent her own place

You’re being exploited

Pussycat22 · 30/07/2022 07:53

Time for her to get on her bike!!

ivykaty44 · 30/07/2022 07:54

Sharing your home with other people is a really big learning curve, regardless of where they come from.

we all have different ideas & habits, which can grate on other people in confined homes which intensify those feelings.

when you pledged the money, was this a signed firm or just something you yourself have decided?

how could you or would you be able to resolve some of the issues?

can you sit and chat to her, explain that things like toothpaste, toilet paper you’d like her to contribute? I don’t know the rules on this, are you allowed or should the money fro gov be covering these items?

can you solve the issues between the D.C.?

safetyfreak · 30/07/2022 07:56

I knew this would happen and sadly, it be up to the council to rehouse them all when we already have a dire stock of social housing. Well done Tory government

Marvellousmadness · 30/07/2022 08:00

I would discontinue the arrangement asap

WhatsInAMolatovMocktail · 30/07/2022 08:00

Separate the two things. Start by saying, ‘as you’re staying longer than I thought you might be, I need you to contribute to the household. I’ve cleared a cupboard in the kitchen for your laundry and cleaning things, and a bathroom cabinet for your other household supplies. From now on you can buy those items for your own use, and I’ll buy mine, like we do with food. Also with rising living costs I cannot afford to give you half the government money any more, I hope you understand why and I want you to be comfortable while you are here.”

then once that part is sorted tell her you would prefer she moves out to your timetable, and you will help her look for a rental property if she is struggling.

NotMyDust · 30/07/2022 08:02

keep your word on the money, stop going on about washing powder etc, ask her to move by January.

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