Is this how men talk? Is this acceptable? Met police court case

[Dalint]

What police 'allegedly' talk about when discussing rapes, DV victims, people with disabilities.....

www.lbc.co.uk/news/met-cops-sent-racist-and-sexist-whatsapp-messages-to-wayne-couzens-group/

"Detectives found material on the WhatsApp group stored on an old phone belonging to Couzens, the former officer who was jailed for life over Ms Everard's rape and murder."

It goes on further

"in the chat, jokes were made about West London being a "f Somalian s*hole", while in another exchange, Mr Neville said his experience of "struggle snuggles" had helped him pin "a 15 year old girl going mental to the floor".

Btw struggle snuggles was their term for rape.

"In another exchange, Mr Cobban said domestic violence victims "love it" and "that’s why they are repeat victims more often than not".

on and on it goes.

This is who protects us? This is who we report crimes to? This is who we are supposed to trust and respect?

AIBU in wanting to fucking protest outside that court?

My dad would have been one of these uneducated white boys you're referring to. He joined the police aged 16 in the 1970s simply because his parents weren't rich enough to pay for him to go on to do any further training/study. He actually wanted to be a commercial airline pilot.

The police paid for him to do a computer science degree and he eventually retired as a chief superintendent.

For some hard working young men (and women as my mum was an officer too!) joining the police was an amazing and life changing opportunity.

I don’t see the benefit of having a go at Vicar. It’s not her fault. Let’s not fall into the trap of tearing into each other.

I too have read vicar’s posts throughout the years.

She has been kind, empathetic and fair. She is not responsible for these ‘men’s’ comments. They are.

I too have worked in environments (mostly male) - still do - where dark humour and an ability not to cry when most would break is an asset. It doesn’t necessarily mean we are awful to those we have been unable to help or protect.

I have never heard anything like these horrors have said and would have protested hard if I had. And so would the men I’ve worked with.

Their comments are disgusting and they deserve everything that is coming to them. Not guilty my backside.

But vicar is one of the good ones and absolutely does not deserve the snark.

Yes we’ve gone out where others will not tread, and yes we are doing our jobs - the ones we are paid for - as best we can. There are bad apples everywhere but women should not be the whipping girls for these sorry specimens in court.

And vicar certainly shouldn’t.

@stillvicarinatutu , I'm happy to see you're still here, or here again. Your old nn was one of the first I started to recognise when I got here many years ago, and you've always talked sense. Even about verrucas.

Indeed. Men are responsible for these comments. It’s men that hate us. Let’s not forget that and not fall into the trap of blaming women for it. We do their work for them when we do that.

I've worked in the police and whilst most of the officers are straight up, moral people doing their best, there were a disproportionate number of racist, sexist men on a power trip. And it does get overlooked because the police protect their own, or have ideas that its a stress response or dark humour.

I'm not going to list the behaviours I saw/heard about as it would be outing but the police have a lot of work to do to change their culture, starting by being completely no tolerance about these kind of texts

Somehow I missed this news story
😮
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-61611895.amp

While I have been on shift what's app groups no one has ever been stupid enough of my shifts to say anything so incredibly crass or stupid

Hang on - you’ve just said black humour about the situations you work in are a coping mechanism. That, and the above statement, can’t both be true. ANY joking about situations are stupid and crass

When ive heard anything that needed challenging I've challenged it to the persons face . But I've never heard anything like these comments reported.

Dont believe you

Paul cousins deserves to rot in hell for what he did

do you mean Wayne Couzens?

But I don't see the same vitriol for the travellers who killed Andrew Harper by dragging him at 30 mph behind a car or for the killers of any other police officers who were simply doing their job and had family to go home to at the end of their shifts

A lot of people got angry about that but I’m afraid your prejudice is showing because Gypsy Traveller isn’t a profession whereby they have a duty to protect the public.

Cousins is an absolute minority of 1

Ha and the rest - would you like me to name others like him? I have plenty

I've worked in the police and whilst most of the officers are straight up, moral people doing their best, there were a disproportionate number of racist, sexist men on a power trip.

@AdamRyan When you say 'disproportionate' number of racist, sexist men, what percentage would that be roughly?

unfortunately I think this attitude is common. Non white people knew this about the police for years but it took the death of a white woman for white people to care. The police force will always attract racists, misogynists, bullies etc because you get paid to harass and intimidate those groups. Once they get into the police, these men (& some women) appear to find each other and share their attitudes, which is often dismissed as banter! And instead of being found out and sacked they often get promoted ( failing upwards!).

I think another issue is that these people (men in this case) are not aliens or animals living under a rock instead they are your husbands, sons, friends etc and everyone (especially white people) need to stop excusing their behaviour and start calling it out as soon as they see it.

It is so incredibly demoralising to read all the comments saying that one bad apple spoils the barrel and that all police are bad etc etc. seriously, wise up.
I have been a police officer for a long time and I'm a good one, I joined the police because I absolutely hate seeing injustices done, I truly believe people should be held accountable for their actions and I will never ever walk by if I see something happening that shouldn't be, whether on or off duty.

There is a shocking amount of deserved bad press regarding police are the moment, we are not coming across well to the general public but the bad apples really are a small minority, it's just that they happen to be in such a position that when they get found out it's a really big deal, there are men like this everywhere, in every profession, every walk of life, they just get found out less.

I have genuinely never ever experienced seeing or hearing anything like this from colleagues, on the occasions that I have heard something I find inappropriate I call people out immediately, no amount of people saying they think I'm lying makes this any less true, it's just a way to serve the rhetoric to try to make us all liars.

For those of you saying you wouldn't ever trust any police officer, ever, I assume that means that if your home ever got broken into, or you were robbed, or your child went missing, you wouldn't ask the police for help huh? It doesn't work both ways.
By all means direct all your hate and vitriol to the ones that deserve it, they are scum and don't deserve to be walking this earth, but please, spare a thought for those of us that are not like them, and have the decency to respect us and understand that we are individuals who happen to wear a uniform, we don't all come as one.

For those of you saying you wouldn't ever trust any police officer, ever, I assume that means that if your home ever got broken into, or you were robbed, or your child went missing, you wouldn't ask the police for help huh? It doesn't work both ways.

If I was raped or sexually assaulted, robbed, mugged or even if my child was assaulted, then no, I wouldn’t go to the police. Not in a million years. I don’t trust the system. Therefore I don’t trust the staff. I have no reason too.

In fact my child did go through something and the police acted like we were a massive waste of time. They couldn’t wait to get rid of us. My friend was stalked by a colleague, loads of forensic evidence, and after 6 months they rang her and said that ‘time had ran out and therefore they HAD to drop the case’.

Probabky because you work in that job and with good intentions you probably don’t realise the hell and incompetence some people experience.

And no police get cookies for simply doing their job like the police on here seem to want. You come out to a kissing child case? Big Whoop. That’s like giving a round of applause for people turning up to work. Because more often than acceptable, after police turn up they fuck it up.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that, but incompetence and being bad at the job doesn't make someone corrupt. There are plenty of incompetent and lazy officers around, I'm not blind to it, quite the opposite In fact, you will never find me sticking up for cops who don't deserve it.

I'm also not expecting a round of applause for turning up at work or going to certain jobs, I don't think my comments even suggests that, all I'm asking for is a bit of adult recognition that not all of us are bad because some of us are, a bit of respect for the fact that I, along with the majority of others are just trying to do the right thing rather than be told we're all corrupt.

That's what still gets me, even after all this time, is that some people hate me just because of the uniform I wear and the job I do, I'm actually a decent person, I really care about victims of crime, I have sleepless nights when I think victims are not being heard, it makes my blood boil when lazy colleagues and supervision allow jobs to be dealt with in the most convenient or quick way rather than the way which will give some semblance of justice to a victim, and yet here we are, I'm still hated.

It didn't really used to bother me, but it does now, I'm a little like you I think, I don't have ptsd but there are certain jobs I struggle with now, it's not worth it, I used to be proud to be a cop but I can no longer say this is the case, if it was worth it financially to me to leave, I'd hand in my resignation immediately. I would never want my child to be a cop, I'd be devastated to think of that level of hated being levelled at them.

For those of you saying you wouldn't ever trust any police officer, ever, I assume that means that if your home ever got broken into, or you were robbed, or your child went missing, you wouldn't ask the police for help huh? It doesn't work both ways.

The police told the mother of Richard Okorogheye something along the lines of "If you can't find your son how do you expect the police to find him for you?"

This didn't shock me a single bit. What would be shocking is a half decent police officer.

Not your relatives IN FRONT OF YOU. I used to think this too, but even my gay, really good with women's rights brother thinks drag Queens are funny and trans should have access to showers and toilets of women.

My lovely friend who I really thought was a good man told me the story of his child's birth. He berated her mother (split) for wanting him there so she wasn't alone IN CHILDBIRTH and basically mocked me when I said I'd have hated to be alone too. it's scary and many women and babies used to die until quite recently and now it's still quite a risk. He basically laughed and now I think 'fucker'. I get he wasn't in a relationship, didn't want a child but don't have sex with her then?! and definitely don't fuck her off when she's having your baby!

Also I've over heard every single one of my male relatives. Dad, grandad, cousins, uncles talk badly about women. All of them.
My DH is getting better but he still isn't there. I can't even think about it because it makes me want to fucking kill them.
Every one. It's quite jarring hearing your father talk about how sexy a teenager is. It's sad and pathetic. She was younger than me, his daughter.

A good way to get men to thunk differently (although it still doesn't work because it's not the same) is to make it about a man and a gay man.
when ME TOO happened we were all chatting about it.
females saying 'how would you like it someone touched your arse in a bar?'
males laughing I'd love it.
Females ' what you'd love a 6 foot gay man touching your arse?'
males 'oh no that's disgusting. that's not the same as a girl touching your arse. I'd like that'
females ' but it wasn't a girl, it was a man and him and his mates put something in your drink and they're going to try to take you in their car and put their dicks in your arse and mouth whole you can't move'
males ' shut up that's disgusting. that would never happen'
females 'its happened to me'
males '... you dirty liars.' thinks of all the girls they've groped at bars

I don't believe its not all men because its every man I know.

Another thing. all of my male friends throughout my life. Every single one tried it on with me. Every one. And we always ended the friendship when I wasn't interested. I wanted a friendship not a relationship.
God I'm so embarrassed but I actually thought I was quite popular, one of the guys, a cool girl, in my teens. Turns our I had a vagina. that was it. none of my female friends tried to kiss me or sleep with me though. Funny that.

@Maybee21 indont think all police officers are bad at all. I’m sure there is some fantastic ones out there. However there are too many bad ones and clearly a culture of vitriol and misogyny in almost every force, in differing ways. That’s why I wouldn’t trust police forces.

I remember watching 999 What’s your emergency and there was a female officer who dealt primarily with DV calls. The way she spoke to female victims, stupid things like “Well what did you do that for?!” and telling them off, And then bantered with the abusers turn my blood cold. And that’s when cameras are rolling. I get that officers will be jaded with the job and the people they have to deal with but in no other job would it be ok to be so awful to members of the public, joke about it and then moan when people don’t kiss their feet.

I really believe no woman can trust she will be safe in the care of the Met, ever. We have seen this vile culture of misogyny repeatedly over the last few years.

These are officers who are responsible for looking after women every day who may have been attacked, followed, raped, assaulted by a partner or a stranger, stalked or even murdered.

Would you trust a man with the attitudes and behaviours these officers have exhibited to look after you or your daughter with care and respect in these situations? I wouldn't.

They should be sacked and lose their pensions. It's abhorrent behaviour. This culture runs throughout the Met and most likely in other police forces and it is not taken seriously by the Chief Constables and the government.

The Met seriously need to work hard on rebuilding the public’s trust and I think a good start would be that officer’s recognise why the trust is gone and don’t piss and moan about how nice they are and it’s everyone else that’s the problem - which is actually what I would expect the bad ones to say too

Would you put your hand in a snakepit if you were told 'only some of them bite?'

The police are a snakepit. I include those who see and hear what goes on but say and do nothing about it. What's 'good' about them? They're all snakes.

I called police when an ex came to my home and seriously threatened me. Policeman arrived told me I could be arrested for being shouty towards my ex. On the doorstep of my own home. & he was smirking, arms folded, whilst he said it. Knowing that I was distressed. My ex didnt live with me, just turned up to threaten.

Fucking bastards

@DeeCeeCherry my SIL had her ex (father of her DD) round for a birthday party and they rowed. She was holding their DD, 3 at the time, he grabbed the DD and then kicked SIL in the crotch to get her away. She fell into the stair gate, ripping it off the wall. And took off with their DD.

She called us freaking out so we went round and called the police. She’d messaged him to say she’d done this. The only reason he returned was because he’d stashed his weed in her kitchen.

The police turned up and told SIL that she provoked her ex, and concluded that SIL was hysterical so her ex had a duty to remove the child (and apparently assault her too). She also said ‘he has parental responsibility so has every right to take his daughter. It’s not kidnapping, you’ve wasted our time’. It wasn’t worth mentioning drugs they no doubt would have blamed SIL. The ex just stood there smirking as the two female officers simpered over him.

The ex, six years later, still uses this situation to control SIL. “Remember when that copper told me I can take my daughter whenever I like….just remember that”. SIL is too broken and scared to fight him.

I thankfully haven’t had too many encounters with the police, but every single one has been shocking with their incompetence and prejudice. It shouldn’t be that way - that level of incompetence shouldn’t be so high. So many women shouldn’t be staying they wouldn’t report a rape because of please. It’s not us - it’s the police, and something has to change.