To want a third baby? DH doesn’t and I am 10 wks pregnant

[lydiangel83]

No anti abortion haters please. DH and I DTD loosely knowing i was in my window and now I am 8-10 wks pregnant. I am one of three kids and my mum never had enough time for us, and I always said I just wanted 2 healthy kids and DH agreed. DD1 had severe health issues as a baby that she has luckily grown out of but the strain on our marriage was hard due to stress, anxiety of her health and years of lack of sleep: not to mention traumatic labour leaving me with broken coccyx.

We reluctantly agreed we didn’t want DD1 to be an only child, and ironically our own siblings have all been shit in the last 18 months so perhaps we shouldn’t have focused on giving her a sibling. But we did: and My DD2 was born with a genetic condition that is totally life limiting, she is registered disabled, and yet she’s the cutest baby around (aged 18 months but looks younger). We know the future will be hard - we have been told by professionals- we just don’t know exactly what it will look like. I’m so sick of people saying look at what you do have tho. We have lost our future as a couple; individuals and as a family - we know all the things we will never be able to do, and that she won’t work or live alone, for example.

Of course we are trying our best but we are devastated for her and for her sister who I fear will need to be her carer when we are gone. I look at DD1 sleeping at night and cry for her future; for the sibling she hasn’t got; and for everything I’ve done to keep her a happy healthy child. DD2 is our lifelong project, we love her dearly too and work really hard and spend a lot of money doing our best for her.

I want a DC3 to be a sibling/ support to DD1 and a role model/ friend to DD2. Many parents I’ve come across with same rare condition found having a third / subsequent child very healing and selfishly I really want this too; to have all the cuddles and experiences I had with DD1 that I didn’t get with DD2 due to her horrific birth and NICU experience.

DH is totally in fear of it happening again/ anything else going wrong which I totally get. We argue loads and are not in a good place:

yet we are both turning 40 soon so time is really running out. I feel like I can cope with a third child but if DH not on board I don’t know what to do. AIBU to want It anyway and go against his wishes?

Ps DD2 condition statistically impossible to happen again and would be tested for in pregnancy

My middle child has autism, we had one more a few years later and my daughter was born with a genetic condition. At times my heart breaks for my eldest who has said she would love a "normal" sibling relationship, but this is what we've been dealt and we will make the best of things. I would never assume that my eldest would become her sister's carer, (my eldest has big plans to be Prime Minister).

The thought of another child with additional health needs or a disability is too much for me to contemplate another baby. You however are in this position now, think carefully about worst case scenario, likelihood of a child with additional health needs etc and whether you have the strength to manage this. Also, whilst it's a crappy thing to think about think about the logistics of having another very young child without health issues and whether you'll manage to balance anything for your middle child.

I hope you and your husband can discuss things and make a decision you're both comfortable with, good luck with whatever you decide and if you do continue the pregnancy I hope it's straightforward without health issues for either of you ❤️

Yes. Have a child if you want a child, not to fulfil some role you've already designated for them. That's not fair on anyone.

I'm sorry for your difficult birth experiences and it sounds like you have a lot on your plate. I'm afraid I can't quite see how having another baby is going to help right at this moment. Talk to your husband as soon as possible.

I haven’t read every response but I just wanted to say that I am the eldest of 2 sisters. My younger sister is registered disabled and has been since a child. It’s been tough. My parents care for her - she is late twenties and still lives at home, she needs a lot of support. I left home at 21, have married, had 2 children and have my own career. I love my sister dearly but I will never be her carer. When my parents are no longer around or able to care for her she will need to go into residential care or have a carer at home. My parents have budgeted for this. I will visit and take her out as much as I am able but I won’t be able to (nor do I want to) take full responsibility.

Not much point to my post except to say think of DD1 and make the best decision for her. My childhood was all about my DSis and I was always put second. As an adult I can understand this better but as a child it was bloody hard and has taken some counselling to come to terms with. She needs your love and attention more than most kids will, and also a disabled child ultimately costs more to care for you consider whether finances need to play a part in your decision. My mum gave up work to care for DSis so we only had one income coming in to the household - manageable for the 4 of us but would have been harder for a family of 5.

Good luck with everything 💐

When I was a child, back in the Bronze Age, our neighbours had three daughters. The middle girl had learning disabilities, not terribly serious but enough to impact her life prospects. She also presented with quite challenging behaviour.

The parents always centred the LD child. The youngest girl was my age, we got on quite well, but we were never allowed to play just together or as we got older, go out together ( ie to the park). We always had to include the middle child, even though she was much bigger than us and quite rough/ boisterous. She would break toys and hit people, but her parents still insisted that she should come with us.

Their plan , which they were quite open about, was that whichever sister undertook to live with the middle sister would receive the total inheritance (quite nice house and savings).

The eldest sister married an American soldier from the local airbase, literally within a month of being able to marry legally without parental consent. She left with him within a year and never came home. I don’t know what happened to her because she didn’t seem to contact them, or they never told anyone.

The youngest sister ran away, she literally climbed out of the bedroom window one night ( it was a bungalow) and legged it. Every time I heard Sargent Pepper I thought of her! I don’t know what happened to her , either, though her parents tried to make me promise that if she ever contacted me I would tell them. She didn’t, and I wouldn’t have done.

Well you’re 10 weeks pregnant. I think you should go for it but bear in mind it could be tough juggling everything, especially in the preschool years. I am assuming you are carer for DD2 so I suppose it also depends on the support you have.

Hopefully your DH will come round - I think this could be a good thing for your family and your DD1.

FWIW I’m the younger DC of only 2, my eldest sibling has long term MH issues, they’re getting a lot better with age but for about 20 years I effectively lost them 😓 It was tough. This is what drove me to have 3 DCs, I have a big gap and DC3 isn’t the easiest child but long-term I know I’ve done the right thing.

Reading this for a different POV here.
I am DD1, my mum was an only child and didn’t want that for me, burden of caring of my parents as they got older, no one to support me, no one to play with me etc etc - so she had DD2.
Similar to you, a very rare condition means my sister is severely disabled will never be independent etc.
I know my mum and dads heart breaks as this was not intended, as they view it I will now be caring for everyone and have no support and will bear that burden on my own.

However- I ADORE my sister. She gives me such purpose, I will be her full time carer when mum and dad no longer can do so. When times have been really difficult she has been the one that has got me through, knowing I need to be there for her. There was never any pressure for my parents to care for her when older but I want to, she is my sister- not the governments or some care institute- she is my sister.

I agree with others that counselling may be helpful for you both. Only the two do you can decide, but that is my story.
Take care OP X

It’s not DD1’s job to be a future carer for her sister

No it isn't but honestly what do you think happens when OP becomes unwell, or when they become too infirm to look after the sibling, or when the sibling needs help?

A very difficult dilemma, but what's clear is that this pregnancy is as much your husband's responsibility as your own. If he doesn't want another baby, then he should control his own fertility.

I would want medical advice on the chances of this baby having the same genetic condition before making any decisions, to be honest.

Personally I think it wouldn't be fair on DD1 or DC3 if you had another. You already know that DD2 will take most of your time and energy and attention, leaving little for DD1 (however much you think it won't). Bringing a third child into the mix means even less of your time for DD1, and DC3 similarly once they're past the baby stage. [And on that note, how will you and DH care for both a helpless baby and DD2 with her increased needs at the same time?]

Stop building a castle in the air where DC3 is a support for DD1. That may or may not happen when they're older, but you can't know - and there will be lots of childhood and teenage years to get through before that happens.

I think your DH is looking at it from a realistic perspective, while yours is idealistic.

And I'm not anti abortion but I am anti using it as a form of contraception. Use a condom next time.

@user1477391263 I think that I did read the OP's post carefully, but I think that I have interpreted it slightly differently to you (I know that your above post wasn't aimed at me, but I think that I feel pretty much the same as a lot of other pp's here).

"Of course we are trying our best but we are devastated for her and for her sister who I fear will need to be her carer when we are gone. I look at DD1 sleeping at night and cry for her future;..."

To me the OP is saying that she fears her daughter will need to be her sister's carer, not that OP fears that her DD1 will feel the need to be, but that the OP fears her DD1 (will in actuality realise that she) will indeed need to be DD2's carer. I think that what might seem to be a subtle difference, is actually a massive one.

So to me the OP is not saying

"who I fear will feel beholden to be her sister's carer - but of course I have made sure from the start that I am doing and saying everything in my power to make sure that DD1 never feels like that. I have not only read any appropriate books on the subject, I have also had a couple of sessions with an expert psychologist, on how to approach DD1's upbringing to ensure that I and my husband never put any pressure or expectations on our DD1 to be DD2's carer when we can no longer manage, or are no longer around.

We have also learned how important it is to bring DD1 up having her own interests outside of our family set-up. The psychologist also stressed that however difficult we find it to do, we must soon start letting our DD2 go away for respite care in a residential setting every so often, so that both DDs get used to the idea that this is a good thing to do."

@lydiangel83
You could say to your DD1 how important it is that DD2 learns to live and be happy in that setting, because once you get too old to care for DD2 that will become her every day life and her home. Also, please try not to have even the slightest hint of a question in your voice, or even a hint of regret, if you can help it, just try to say it in a matter of fact - it is what it is - tone of voice.

As @user1477391263 suggested, I am reasonably sure that your DD1 will still at some stage convince herself that when you can no longar cope, she will be - will want to be - DD2's carer. However, unlike @user1477391263 I do feel that your present thoughts do mean that you are deliberately (but not nastily deliberately) bringing DD1 up to be DD2's carer, I also believe that you are doing that because your mind has not thought - or cannot think - of it in any other way. I am sure that you only have great love for your two daughters, and that your thought processes are done with love, not realising that there are choices, and that there can be a better way, for all concerned.

So, depending on expert advice, if your DD1 tells you that she intends to take over DD2's care when you can no longer do it, I think that you should tell your DD1 that you are so proud of the woman she is becoming, and you love how much DD1 and DD2 love each other, but that DD1 being DD2's carer would not be in DD2's best interests, even though you know that your DD1 has DD2's best interests in her heart.

DD2 may even outlive DD1, or any other unforeseeable thing could happen in the future to change things dramatically, so it really is in the best interests of DD2, for her to have a life independent of her biological family. Once you believe this yourself (but I fear that that will take a long time for you), it will be much easier for you to convince DD1 that you are speaking the truth.

I am in awe at your capacity for love @lydiangel83 and that you want to spread it even further for what seems to you to be good reasons. But I think you have already admitted that after DD1, you might not have thought through your expectations of a second child, and I fear now that you are again not using the best commonsense in your mind this time either.

I think that you need an in depth discussion with your DP, possibly in front of a mediator or counsellor, but at least somewhere where you can listen to each other very carefully, and without shouting at each other, or becoming overly upset. Maybe you could both go with notes you have made, just to help with the clarity of your thought processes. Hopefully at the end of that - or several - discussions, you will both agree on what you should do next.

I think if I was you I would have thought about having another kid. My husband is now an only child after his sibling died and he really wishes he had another for many reasons. I wouldn't expect DD1 to be carer but I'm a doctor and I see a lot of siblings fill that role and it's lovely to see how caring and protective their relationship can be.

You are already pregnant so you are deciding whether you want to keep the baby, this conversation needs to be with your husband, although its your choice when it comes down to it.

I think wanting a 3rd child is fine if you think you will cope, I guess it's having the healthy sibling for your 1st child you feel you missed out on (not saying you would change your second child or a 3rd is in anyway replacing your second child).

I want a DC3 to be a sibling/ support to DD1 and a role model/ friend to DD2.

My nephew has severe learning difficulties which has a serious impact on the family dynamics and his siblings lives. Don't under estimate the problems another child, disability or not, will bring to your family and how the condition of your existing child will affect your other children.

So sorry you are going through this.

I am the carer for my brother who has a condition that can’t be tested for. He can’t live alone and he can’t work due to the nature of it. He now lives in supported living where there are carers on hand 24/7. Perhaps o can offer you my lived experience.

I am also one of 3, my older sister does what she can but is very much living her own life and only lends support with care when I’m absolutely desperate for help. (She has her own mental health issues and can’t deal with the stress of caring for our brother).

The truth is that you don’t know how the relationships will turn out between the siblings. It’s also worth mentioning that growing up things were difficult as my sister was a teenage tear away. Which was stressful for my mother at the time. ( so it’s worth thinking about the other challenges you may face as your children are growing up, as well as the fact you are looking after a disabled child).

sorry to sound doom and gloom but I’m just trying to be realistic.

These are the ways caring for my brother has impacted me to give you some context.

I feel I can’t go on holidays or even have the choice to move away because of my brother needing me.

Both my parents died by the time I was 23 (from things that couldn’t have been predicted) and I feel resentful that I have been left to deal with everything. I had to sort out the supported living, my brothers finances, court orders to be able to control his finances., because my mother had always wanted him to stay with her. My biggest advice would be to get your child into supported living/residential care when they turn 18 or 21 depending on how long they are in education. You can still see your child whenever you like.

I am still only young and I am pretty certain I do not want children of my own because of how stressful I find caring for my brother or the worry of my child having a disability.

Constant communication with DWP, social services, learning disability services, care staff, his bill providers etc takes its toll.

with cost of living going up I am having to help out with bill rises which obviously impact me financially.

if something happens with my brother I have to take time of work as you would for a dependent, m thankful that my work are understanding of my situation.

All that said and done, my brother is my life, I wouldn’t have him any other way and I do enjoy caring for him to an extent… my experience has influenced my career , which I love as it is also based around helping others with learning difficulties.

I wouldn’t say my parents having a third child was wrong or right, but I don’t suggest having a child in the hope that they will help with care, as in my experience that isn’t the case, and she is older, not younger.

Sorry for situation. There are no guarantees with children, as you already know.

Hi OP, I didn't want to read and run because I get you and you are getting some real twats twisting your words and making assumptions about you here.
One of my children have a life limiting genetic condition (Duchenne, in our case), too, just a random mutation rather than hereditary so the people assuming that the odds must be 'stacked against you' should wind their necks in before flippantly making such personal comments.
On that note, my main piece of advice would be to try and find a forum for people who have gone through similar situations and talk it through there. I am not a big fan of Facebook but in the early months of knowing about my son's condition the very active communities which existed there were the best forms of support available to me.
We also have two kids (the other one healthy), and did consider having another but ultimately didn't. I think that the decision would have been the same regardless of my son's condition so I feel comfortable with it. The narrative of 'it isn't fair to give birth to another child when you already have a disabled one' that sometimes takes place doesn't always sit right with me - of the few siblings who have posted here, none of them reflect that point of view, I am certain my own daughter wouldn't, people are making huge assumptions and/or projecting. It sounds like you're doing the right thing already thinking about how your child will be supported if you die without the help of their sibling, and I think that that's the crucial thing. I think all you can do, whether you ultimately decide to have two or three children, is look at each child at a time, and do your utmost to help them live as full of a life, have the best opportunities and be as independent as possible (obviously that'll look very different for children with such different needs).
Advice about whether you should have an abortion or not is meaningless, it's a complex, deeply personal decision you will have to live with for the rest of your life, regardless of what some anonymous rando on Mumsnet thinks. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Odd how one uncharitable reading of OP's post dominates responses. She isn't predefining roles for her kids, she is worrying and thinking about what they might become, given DC2's additional needs. And let's be honest,it's difficult not to make that kind of assumptions.

Meanwhile the 'your body, your choice' discourse has gone AWOL. Do mothers of disabled kids have less reproductive rights?

OP it does sound to me like you'd find it difficult to end this pregnancy given the place you're in emotionally. If this is so, better start working on mitigating the fallout. Get every test going and get used to the thought that in the worst case, your marriage won't survive this.

But there's no point aborting to please your husband as in that case you'd end up with neither a baby nor - due to resentment - a relationship. All the best.

Pretty unfortunate to be thinking that dc3 will be a support to dc2 and help out dc1 to look after her. I think that’s a reason I wouldn’t consider and isn’t a valid reason for continuing a pregnancy. Who knows what will happen in the future, or if they’ll get on. My sibling emigrated to Australia.

If you want the baby, have it, but not so he/she can potentially look after your dd2 in future. Don’t let your Dh make the decision for you.

PS. I should say dominates the early responses- seeing now that later ones are a lot more thoughtful. Hats off to all those caring for disabled siblings.

OP, its interesting how many posters with disabled siblings either are grateful for having other siblings too or wish they did have for someone else to share the responsibility with. Most posters with disabled family members seem to get where you're coming from. ❤️

Yep, I notice this too, looking at the responses here.
I agree it's an ethical dilemma either way. But I do "get" what the OP means when she says she fears DD1 will need to take responsibility at some level in the end. Very few people are callous enough to just walk away altogether when they have a siblings with complex needs, so it's going to be hard for DD1 to avoid this altogether unless DD2 predeceases her (sorry, no nice way to put that). Situations like supported living are great but don't eliminate the issue; the closest surviving relative still ends up having to take a lot of responsibility onto their own shoulders.

I think you need to consider whether you can cope with 3 children if your marriage breaks down over this, particularly if child 3 turns out to have disabilities too.

@FTMFML what a lovely post.

I think the poor OP is getting a pile on because of wording. I don't think she means DD1 will be forced to care for her sibling whether she wants to or not, more that she may have to make decisions about her care and will feel responsible in this way.

This is someone making an agonizing choice and the lack of compassion is startling. There's no right or wrong answer because life has too many variables. You just have to do what feels right in your heart

I think the argument/point about another sibling being able to share the responsibility for dd2 with dd1 is very valid and persuasive. It does, however, make me very, very uncomfortable that it seems this baby is going to be born to serve the needs of others - the mother's to heal her experience of pregnancy/birth/family life, the eldest sibling's to provide her with someone to 'share the load'. (And FWIW, I feel similarly about the way many people without disabilities in the mix say they are having a second child to 'give dc1 a sibling'. I have three, but never had any of them to 'give siblings' to the existing ones. They all came for themselves).

OP, I know you've qualified your wording in later posts, but there's definitely a sense that you are thinking very much of this baby in terms of his or her role/function in your family. That's too much to put on any child - disabled sibling or no.

Think again please.

If you have a third child, it deserves be a child. Children should not be planned as a means of support for anyone.