How the hell do I manage this behaviour?

[Workyticket]

We (me, dh and ds 10) are currently on holiday in a fab hotel but I'm on edge and so upset tonight

Ds is the absolute apple of my eye, I adore him and throw praise and attention at him. He's generally loving and polite but he's developed this horrible snipey streak towards me and it's uncharacteristically getting me down

He must have criticised / sniped at me literally dozens of times today and yesterday
-mam can't sing, there's literally nobody worse
-you can't throw the ball straight / you're literally rubbish / you're the worst thrower / you can't even catch (in the pool)
-mam is the worst dancer / everyone is a better dancer than mam
-mam chose the worst sun beds / put the towels on wrong

It sounds ridiculous - and I feel childish for being upset but it feels constant

I've sat him down and told him it's hurtful, given him time out, taken his tech. He apologies, acts sorry, tells me he loves me then literally the next thing out of his mouth is negative towards me

I'm a teacher - known for not going a pushover and for having a handle on discipline. Ds is usually a good lad. He's always erred on the negative side whixh we're trying to steer him away from but it's another level this week

Not sure why I'm posting but dh is having a cool bath and ds is snoring in the bed next to mine looking angelic and I'm feeling emotional

Please help me rescue the holiday and my relationship with ds

He sounds like a tween. Hormones come into play & it may unconsciously be pulling away. It sounds like you’re doing and saying the right things by letting him know it’s hurtful. They often lack empathy at this age too. Keep reminding him to be kind & make sure you dh is n the same page too. Try hard not to take it personally-this is difficult!

These are put downs. Unnecessary and mean. It's understandable they hurt your feelings. Kids will try on new behaviour and wherever it come from he's testing to see what happens. If you withdraw or make more efforts to be nice to him you're teaching him that meanness can be used to hurt and manipulate others. If you don't address it directly or let it carry on, you're saying it's ok for him to treat you this way.

Since this behaviour has shown up, now is the time to choose if you want put downs to be part of your family life, and part of your son's future relationships. Would you want him putting down his future spouse? Or allowing his spouse to put him down? If not, there are two things you need to do.

First, teach him the communication you do want from him. Eg. if he has a genuine request he can be direct, use a kind voice, use "I" statements and suggest his preferred solutions eg. "Mum, thanks for saving me a sunbed, I'd prefer one in the shade so can I come and choose my own next time?"

Secondly, let him know that you will speak to him with respect and kindness and expect the same from him, so put downs are not acceptable. Then explain that since asking him to stop has not worked he will have a small chore to do each time he speaks disrespectfully. The goal isn't to punish with an arduous task, but get him to do something that is enough of a consequence that it helps him choose to be respectful next time. Examples for on holidays could be tidy things away in the hotel room, fold the towels, make you a cup of tea, go down early to reserve the sunbeds. Have a list of possible small tasks ready. Be prepared for push back and remind him he has a simple choice to speak with respect next time if he doesn't want to do a chore.

You need to set this boundary now because his disrespect will grow into scorn and he will begin to genuinely feel for contempt for you if you continue to let him put you down. There was a recent thread from the mother struggling with her son in his 20s who is rude and disrespectful of her, and it likely started where you are now. It will be much harder, if not impossible, to change when the behaviour is habitual. Right now you have a good opportunity to model self-respect and boundaries, and teach him that basic respect is the benchmark in relationships. This all sets him up for happier relationships when he grows up.

What do you say when he is rude/mean to you like that? A quick, sharp "don't be rude!" would be entirely appropriate, and a 3 strikes you're out with whatever activity you're doing. Stop being such a walkover.

My DSs learned very quickly that playground humour would not be tolerated when it was directed at me.

Using chores as a punishment is misguided.

Chores are part and parcel of family life and should be done by everyone aged 8 and over. They are part of training your child to be an independent and responsible teen and adult. Associating chores with punishment will not achieve that end. They will just put his back up.

Chores taught and supervised and modeled by dad as well as mum teach a sneery, rude boy who picks on his mum and not his dad that men and women have an equal responsibility toward the family and the home they share. They teach boys that housework is a skill and a commitment worthy of respect.

Chores accomplished successfully and consistently teach a pre teen that mum and dad have expectations that need to be fulfilled. This teaches implicitly that mum and dad are in charge and that DCs must contribute to family life - they are not there to be waited on.

They develop the young person's sense of being a valued family member, which is far more valuable than positivity and praise just for being themsemves, with the accompanying idea that the sun shines forth from their rear end. A sense of competence and knowing that they can contribute something real and good in their own home is a huge confidence booster as a child moves into the teen years. Self discipline cannot be bought and it will never emerge from a constant diet of praise that is not earned.

His dad should model compliments toward the OP. He should require an apology from DS for snippy and sneery language and put downs dorected at his wife - the DS is challenging everyone here, not just the OP. As soon as he is tall enough and gets enough testosterone coursing through his veins his father will find himself dealing with the same dysfunctional communication strategy only with much more resistance to apologising and stopping.

I think you need to keep calling him out on it every time and sending him off if he doesn’t listen.

I have seen grown men treat their mum with contempt, and I think a lot of them were allowed to be like as kids/teens.

It sounds like you are treating him as a friend (which in itself is fine), but it has blurred the lines as he now sees you as an equal. You are not equals.

Totally accept it's probably my fault. I definitely give him more time than dh does but get more stick

Yes - I played in the pool for 4 hours in and off, plenty other parents were doing the same. I don't think it's about my self respect. I enjoy playing catch / with a bat and ball etc, it's part of the holiday

Ds played with another boy / went on the slides / practised diving etc in between

We had a lazy pool day - so I still had hours to read my book. I'd be bored if I didn't play in the pool

However I am prepared to be bored today and will keep disengaging if he starts

When my ds went through a stage like this I also withdrew attention but more of a way that was a response to his words as suggested above.

"Mum you're rubbish at catching"

"Yeah I'm not doing well am I? I'll go and sit and read my book and let you find someone better to play with".

Although it meant affirming his words in a way ds actually learnt that words had a meaning in a way he thought about what was coming out of his mouth. Because it wasn't actually I was rubbish he'd just say that if I missed the ball as a learnt negative reaction.

So later on if he'd ask me again I'd say something like "I don't think so ds. Im rubbish and you don't enjoy playing with me".

He'd then learn to say something positive about my playing to persuade me and the more he used positive phrases the more they became the norm.

At his age it's probably very much learnt behaviour. Just listen to boys that age in the playground playing together (especially things like football).

That's my plan for today @itsgettingweird 😍

I'm an early riser so I've bagsied the loungers I want and I'm sat with a coffee enjoying my own company

I don't want to set a battle ground with him on holiday but I absolutely will withdraw my attention today

He's so kind and polite usually - and at home I have no issue withdrawing etc it all just feels so different on holiday

Alternatively you could tell him off.

" Ds don't speak to me like that it's very unkind. If you carry on you can go to bed early/ not have an icecream etc."

There night be an underlying reason, he may be just going through a phase but in the real world if we are unkind then people will pull him up on it."

Or just ignore it.

Been there...it hurts.

I watched a couple of Ds’s friends develop this behaviour towards their Mums.

And interestingly it was the ones who were most….‘mummy’s boy’.. I mean that in an un-derogatory way… the ones least happy being away from home and Mum, the ones who seemed closest to their Mums, very lovely sensitive boys. With lovely Mims who were / are my friends.

In the end I wondered if the emergence of puberty / adolescence was giving them a great conflict and they were getting feelings of independence or a perception of maleness where they realised they couldn’t always rely so heavily on their Mums that they couldn’t cope with so sort of blamed their Mums for being the person they couldn’t bear to separate from. IYSWIM.

Anyway, they have grown up to be lovely young adults who are still close to their Mums.

Don’t take it too personally.

Haha! I was about to quote this as excellent advice!

I guess it depends on the child, but this is how I would respond.

I'm not a fan of the somewhat PA responses suggested here (oh I'll sing loudly so re comments about her voice).

I find being v direct & clear, then leaving it, the best response.

I think this is good advice.

I’ve had a touch of this from mine in the past. DH needs to come down hard on it and you need to walk away calmly from the activity. Nastiness needs to result in end of activity. Every time. Challenge the comments - ‘Would you like to have someone saying that about you constantly? Well don’t do it to me then.’
He’s trying to assert his role in the family - next to DH with you lower. No way will I stand for that.

@Workyticket

I've RTFT & I think your point here is the most salient:

He's so kind and polite usually - and at home I have no issue withdrawing etc it all just feels so different on holiday

If he's usually lovely - and it sounds like he is - I would put it down to being on holidays. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but even tho he's probably delighted to be on holidays, he's just a bit discombobulated & maybe out of routine, and reacting badly.

I know that my DC (one of whom is the same age) get arsey in these situations, then settle down. In fact, I do myself! Even tho I want to be away, I am a bit cranky / tired initially.

That doesn't mean letting him away with it, mathanxiety had it right I think - sharp, clear correction but no great discussions & don't give excessive consequences, just don't engage if he's going to be rude or mean.

The other point is that on holidays we always have higher expectations - we are looking forward to it so much, we want perfection, in a way we don't at home.

I hope today is better. 💐

He’s trying to assert his role in the family - next to DH with you lower. No way will I stand for that.

I think that's a bit of a reach. He's 10 & behaving badly. No need to overstate it.

Yes - I played in the pool for 4 hours in and off, plenty other parents were doing the same. I don't think it's about my self respect. I enjoy playing catch / with a bat and ball etc, it's part of the holiday

I agree with you. I like being active with my DC & playing ball / in the pool sounds absolutely fine.

I was in a short nightie the other morning, and my son (7) said 'I've seen 4 people with chubby legs this week and you're the fifth!' I was mortified as I do have chubby legs, chubbier than normal in fact as I'm still carrying baby weight.

I was almost too mortified to respond but I detached from my feelings said 'how do think it makes me feel when you make a personal comment about my body like that?'. I told him he had no right to make that kind of comment and explained that people who tend to make unkind comments often find themselves with no friends. He was mortified and kept bringing it up to apologise for the rest of the day.

I think it was just a thoughtless observation but I tend to nip his musings very much in the bud. Any sneery comments get met with a firm but neutral tone: 'I'm your mother and I expect you to show me respect. Its not respectful to say insert comment here. Our family believes in kindness and we look after eachother by saying kind things. We don't speak to you unkindly, do you? Don't speak to me like that again, please'.

I think it is crucial to firmly establish what you won't tolerate now, not just so you are demonstrating what you will not stand for, but it also shows your child what the behavioural boundaries are so they won't accept it from others either.

Tell him he's upset you and that you're cooling off from him

Ignore him all morning

Sounds like a plan.

I'm very much a believer in natural consequences (I also work in education) as I think children learn best by seeing the results of their words and actions.

Quite often telling them not to speak like that doesn't really change anything because humans are motivated to learn through social interactions as we are social beings.

And missing things like ice creams later on I'm the day has no real impact for words used. That's the sort of thing I'd use as a consequence for bad behaviour like doing something they'd been told not to do.

Hope you have a better day

Agree.

In fact I'd say he's 10 and pretty much behaving like 10.

Boys this age are competitive internally in their friendship groups and sometimes it's spills into their way of behaving.

Withdrawal of attention to force them to think before they speak is such an easy non combative way to deal with it.

Terrible advice.

Ignoring him all morning won't solve anything & will upset OP too.

I hope you have a better day today. Absolute disengage if he's rude, tell him he's been rude and disengage. No more ploughing on.

He needs to learn that being rude, results in upset people, and upset people won't want to be around him. Hopefully he'll learn that includes friends and he won't think he can be rude to someone and expect them to continue to play with him my niece is like this and gets very upset when children at school won't play with her anymore. She struggles to understand that her behaviour is the cause, she thinks she can say and do what she wants, then a fake 'sorry' makes it ok again.

I know you talk about being a teacher and discipline but every teacher I know thinks they are tough on their kids but actually I have only ever seen them be more of a push over. Sorry to generalise but it’s the pattern I have seen.

It must be incredibly hard and I would really struggle with this constant criticism. For the ball throwing one, after the first comment I would have said that’s isn’t very nice. If you can’t talk to be nicely I’m not playing. Your behaviour is not making this fun and it’s hurt my feelings. Do you call it out every time or put up with it until breaking point?

You’re being bullied by your own kid and you carry on playing with him and tell him you love him? No wonder he takes you for a mug tbh.

You are the adult. Don’t take it personally first off. Secondly, he’s lashing out at the person he feels safest with so I would be asking him if people are being critical to him. I would laugh it off and say “Ds let’s not be a moaner”. Positive not negative. Eventually he will get the message