How the hell do I manage this behaviour?

[Workyticket]

We (me, dh and ds 10) are currently on holiday in a fab hotel but I'm on edge and so upset tonight

Ds is the absolute apple of my eye, I adore him and throw praise and attention at him. He's generally loving and polite but he's developed this horrible snipey streak towards me and it's uncharacteristically getting me down

He must have criticised / sniped at me literally dozens of times today and yesterday
-mam can't sing, there's literally nobody worse
-you can't throw the ball straight / you're literally rubbish / you're the worst thrower / you can't even catch (in the pool)
-mam is the worst dancer / everyone is a better dancer than mam
-mam chose the worst sun beds / put the towels on wrong

It sounds ridiculous - and I feel childish for being upset but it feels constant

I've sat him down and told him it's hurtful, given him time out, taken his tech. He apologies, acts sorry, tells me he loves me then literally the next thing out of his mouth is negative towards me

I'm a teacher - known for not going a pushover and for having a handle on discipline. Ds is usually a good lad. He's always erred on the negative side whixh we're trying to steer him away from but it's another level this week

Not sure why I'm posting but dh is having a cool bath and ds is snoring in the bed next to mine looking angelic and I'm feeling emotional

Please help me rescue the holiday and my relationship with ds

Not many - I've played piggy in the middle with him and a boy his age today to get them chatting so hopefully he'll crack on and play with him 2m too

He says himself "all mammies think their kid is the best" etc whilst lapping it up!

Maybe you’ve overdone it a bit? He’s in double figures now. A good time to start shifting a bit towards a more grown up way of interacting.

There is certainly a phase where everything you do is wrong.

I remember one time we were walking to my Mum's (a 10 minute walk) and DD was sulking about being seen with me. I chatted to the dog as DD was ignoring me.

DD had a strop about the embarrassment of being seen with me while I talked to the dog.

'I'm so sorry darling, I won't speak to DDog again '

I sang to the dog instead. Loudly. I can't sing in tune to save my life...

Seriously, have a chat about his feelings and what's going on for him. Be clear that putting you down is unacceptable.

But it may be that he struggling with all sorts of conflicting feelings that make no sense. I would hate to go through puberty again. Walk away, don't humour him, but accept he's all over the place and treat it lightly.

I agree. He’s 10 not 3; he’s old enough to understand this is not OK and you should be telling him firmly it’s not OK to speak to you like that. Every time. The soft “oh DS that’s hurtful” talk is too weak. You really don’t want him into the habit of treating you with this much disrespect or he’ll be a nightmare of a teenager and you won’t be able to control him.
As soon as I read “he’s the apple of my eye” I knew something like this was coming. You’ve been too soft with him and if you’re not careful, this behaviour will get worse.

I think that you and your husband should sit him down in the morning and you should say "I was really looking forward to this holiday. I wanted to spend time with you and to play with you. But you have completely spoilt the last few days for me. (Give him examples, very specific ones and don't let him interrupt.) Now if you don't want me to play with you if that's fine because I'll read my book, but if you do want me to play with you then you have to be polite and treat me a lot better than you have done the last few days. It's your choice." I think you should stand up stand and walk off to do something else. He'll be left with his dad so if he wants to complain he can do it then.

It's important that you confront it together, two against one, telling him that his behaviour is completely unacceptable. Hopefully he'll be okay for the rest of the holiday.

It is just a part of seperating from you, it is healthy and normal. Necessary. You made the sun go up and praised him a bit too much perhaps, but he is discovering you are a normal human being. But you are still ok, even though you can’t sing.

This is definitely intensified by being on holiday- I hate the thought of wasting it being grumpy with him, leaving him to play by himself etc

I want to spend time with him when we're away and, although I'm not expecting it to be glorious every day I wasn't expecting this!

I remember getting to year 7 age and finding things really angered or annoyed me, but things that were really non-issue. I couldn't stop being annoyed though so I'm guessing it was hormonal (it did pass as I got older) and there will have been multiple times I'd have made nasty comments to my mum, usually because I was already angry for no reason then something small she'd do would trigger it. In your case maybe your son is already getting hormonal then if you throw the ball badly once it's tipping him over the edge and he's verbally slating you for it? Perhaps he is overreacting and that's why he is apologetic. I do think if he truly didn't like or respect you then he would be stubborn and not bother apologising, so it sounds like he genuinely is sorry but perhaps can't fully control it.

I don't want to make excuses for him, but from my own experience it was definitely hormones and a phrase. Some days I'd be totally fine but the more time I spent with someone, the more they'd do something to make me really (unjustifiably) cross. Perhaps the holiday is making it worse as you're all together 24/7?

Definitely call him out on it though as you don't want it to become a longer-term behaviour. Even something simple like "that was rude" and walk off to make your point.

I think that you and your husband should sit him down in the morning and you should say "I was really looking forward to this holiday. I wanted to spend time with you and to play with you. But you have completely spoilt the last few days for me. (Give him examples, very specific ones and don't let him interrupt.) Now if you don't want me to play with you if that's fine because I'll read my book, but if you do want me to play with you then you have to be polite and treat me a lot better than you have done the last few days. It's your choice." I think you should stand up stand and walk off to do something else. He'll be left with his dad so if he wants to complain he can do it then.

This is truly the worst advice I’ve read, ever.

You need to let go of enjoying your holiday through him. Enjoy it for yourself, please yourself. If he wants to interact pleasantly and you feel like e.g. playing ball then do it. But you need to step back and let him have the holiday he chooses, whether playing with you, making new friends, or sulking

*Well that's easy,
Mum, will you play catch?
Oh DS you know I can't catch/throw/I'm the worst at that. I don't think it's a good idea. I'll just read my book.

Etc*

Yeah. Being passive aggressive to a 20yo is definitely going to help their relationship 🙄

Yes this.

If you stop fretting about making the holiday go okay, you’ll probably actually save the holiday.

It could be that he is reflecting. You’ve praised him so much, and now he is discovering he is not good at everything like you’ve said he was. So he is reflecting it on you, testing you. You are not good at certain things either, like him, but he is checking if it’s ok not to be perfect. It’s your own doing I’m afraid.

I think you've gone way over the top in showering him in praise and love, and now it's come back to bite you a bit.

He's 10, not 3, so there needs to be consequences in place when he's rude.

If he says you can't throw, stop playing ball with him. If he moans about the sun loungers, don't save him one. When he says you can't sing or dance, tell him to pack his stuff up and you'll go back to the room if he can't be nice.

Where are the consequences?

Fingers crossed for a better day tomorrow ☺️

Actually, if he criticizes my singing or dancing I wouldn't stop, just say that I know I am not good at it, but I enjoy it anyway, and carry on

I agree with pp who say he needs a few quick, specific consequences. He moans about the sunbed, tell him he can chose them tomorrow and wake him up to do it. He says you can't throw, stop playing. I'm an SP to two similar aged kids and I am getting much more assertive about taking no shit from them. I am the mother and do fucking everything for them so if they are rude or critical or sneery there is an immediate, as relevant as I can make it consequence. Don't let this slide just because you're on holiday..you might only need to do it a couple of times.

I do agree with the PPs saying that this is the start of the detachment phase. He’s really ‘ham fisting’ it by the sounds of it, but he’s testing out how he feels to pull away. It’s horrible for you- because you’re being insulted, but also because you have to face that, you’re not going to be enough for him eventually, and he’s starting on that journey now. He’s not old enough to literally pull away abit (and he doesn’t really want that- he still needs you so much!) BUT he’s trying on how it feels to get ready for that.
if I were you, I’d follow the excellent advise on here- when he’s rude to you, pull him up and step away temporarily- definitely don’t keep playing with him etc! But don’t punish him with sanctions like taking his tech- it’s pointless. Let him learn the that consequence of overstepping the line is less attention from people (getting ignored, people being pissed with you…) not more attention (which the other sanctions probably feel like.
good luck- for the holiday, and then next 10yrs!!!

You threw a ball for him on and off for 4 hours???

Did I read that right?

Where is your self respect?

Were you not bored out of your brain? Was there nothing else you wanted to do with your time?

I would have thrown the ball maybe four times, tops.

Even without the 'ploughing on' in the face of his rudeness, you should have said a nice firm, "No, I want to read my book now", to him after at most ten minutes of that malarkey.

Is DS an only child? He needs to become more self reliant when it comes to entertainment, and a stronger line needs to be established between parent and child.
Stop playing with him.
Stop facilitating his communication with other children.
When you get home, stop showering him with positivity and praise. You are not boosting his self esteem. He sees through it. He doesn't like you or respect you more for it.

Start establishing clear expectations of behaviour and chores on his part and dish out appreciation for responsibility and results. Wean him and yourself too off the babying. Make him earn praise. You have about a year left to do this.

He's at that age were your half embarrassed of your parents, half still a little kid who needs and wants them.

If he wants to go the embarrassed teenage route respond in the same way.

DS: 'Mam your shite at throwing the ball'
You: 'Do it yourself then'- then go and chill and have you time.

DS: 'these are the worst sun loungers'

You: go and sit somewere else then me and your dad are happy here.

Just block everything he's saying with an answer, when he realises he can't put you down and you don't care he will get bored and come running back. I used to do the same thing when I was younger and I soon learnt my lesson when I realised I wasn't getting anywhere.

If it gets so bad that that doesnt even work if he mentions your dancing or singing just go okay then lets go back the room. He will be embarrassed you've had to go back due to his comments and bored in the room.

Mine have all went through phase of this. Steely eyed look and I say back with tone 'do you know your being incredibly rude and hurtful right now'. Rinse and repeat. Then if continues or very rude/hurtful then theres a consequences. Losing electronics for an hour can work wonders focusing the mind on the words they use.

Dh would also pull them up.

Don't ever respond defensively to rude complaints of a child using whatever he has chosen to levy against you.

If he sneers that your singing/ throwing/catching is the worst in the world the response is to straighten up and say, "Nobody speaks to me like that," followed by a quick disengagement. That means you turn your back and leave the pool, making sure he knows he has gone too far. When he next approaches, you need to require an apology before he speaks again, regardless of what he wants to speak about.

A defensive answer where you engage with him on the topic of your singing, catching, throwing, cooking, driving, choice of clothing, sunbed choice or towel placement is telling him that you are weak. It just reinforces the idea that he has the right to sneer, to criticise, and to make mean remarks. He doesn't have that right. You need to teach him that.

Do not engage with the topic at hand, ever, when he turns mean.

Every time ‘DS’ is rude to you, you need to enforce consequences. Take away tech. Send him to the little kids pool. Send him back to the room etc.

And DH absolutely needs to back you up on this. Every single time.

I agree with this. Stick with this op

I wonder if he just finds this cloying indiscriminate positivity really annoying?

It comes across as a bit desperate, and it seems like he senses your weakness and doesn’t respect you for it.

It’s true that moving towards teen years kids start to shift away from their parents, but it doesn’t necessarily involve this kind of snipey put downs at 10. If he was 15, it would be different.