How the hell do I manage this behaviour?

[Workyticket]

We (me, dh and ds 10) are currently on holiday in a fab hotel but I'm on edge and so upset tonight

Ds is the absolute apple of my eye, I adore him and throw praise and attention at him. He's generally loving and polite but he's developed this horrible snipey streak towards me and it's uncharacteristically getting me down

He must have criticised / sniped at me literally dozens of times today and yesterday
-mam can't sing, there's literally nobody worse
-you can't throw the ball straight / you're literally rubbish / you're the worst thrower / you can't even catch (in the pool)
-mam is the worst dancer / everyone is a better dancer than mam
-mam chose the worst sun beds / put the towels on wrong

It sounds ridiculous - and I feel childish for being upset but it feels constant

I've sat him down and told him it's hurtful, given him time out, taken his tech. He apologies, acts sorry, tells me he loves me then literally the next thing out of his mouth is negative towards me

I'm a teacher - known for not going a pushover and for having a handle on discipline. Ds is usually a good lad. He's always erred on the negative side whixh we're trying to steer him away from but it's another level this week

Not sure why I'm posting but dh is having a cool bath and ds is snoring in the bed next to mine looking angelic and I'm feeling emotional

Please help me rescue the holiday and my relationship with ds

[Softplayhooray]

Just to add OP as people are saying you shouldn't spend hours playing in the pool with him - I do this too with another pastime, but it's kind of a sport/leisure activity that we both enjoy so I get 100% enjoyment out of it too, it's not a case of being there to indulge him. In fact we were out for 4hrs doing it yesterday and could've been more if I hadn't had a meeting! And we will be doing a second activity we both love for ages today too. No problem in spending lots of time with your kiddo if you love doing it!

[Limecoconutice]

this, i find the behaviour advice on mn and in schools generally laughable at times. Kids need to be put in their place and the softie softie approach is bollox

Reading this thread reminds me of the angst ridden conversations I used to have with myself about whether I was being too strict or too lenient raising my two dc!

Looking back, I don't think it is the method particularly that matters but whether you have confidence in whatever approach you are choosing and confidence in yourself. If you respect yourself, then your son will respect you op.

Now he is older, I would suggest he is starting to be less interested in you as a care giver, playmate and provider of comfort, he is assessing you more critically (as pre teens and tweens tend to do) as an individual in your own right. He is assessing you more dispassionately, and it's not always pleasant as a parent to be on the receiving end of this very honest observation! Not that you are doing anything wrong op, but if you have insecurities like most of us, you can rest assured that some DC will seek them out and "exploit" them like heat seeking missiles! Imho, I would step back a little and not always be so "available". Invest some time on holiday in your own interests and pursuits. Value yourself a bit more and others around you will value you too

Also, I would give some attention perhaps to what your ds and his friends are reading on line and the sort of influences he is absorbing from sm. What sort of conversations is your son having on line with his friends for example? There are some really misogynistic voices out there on Tiktok and YouTube who appear "cool" and "fun" to young lads when they are in reality quite malign. Or it could be that some of his peers have decided that it is cool to mock their mothers and put them down, either because they are copying the way their fathers behave, or they are doing it to gain popularity within their peer group. It's certainly worth looking in to I think.

[Workyticket]

Thanks @Softplayhooray

To be fair it's not 4 hours in 1 go, but broken up across the day between everything else. It's probably more than 4 hours actually but doesn't feel it.

We play with the ball / with mini bats / sinkies etc. Either just us or us and any kids who want to play too.

Ds is also playing with other kids on his own too - breaks the day up!

[SurfBox]

There are some really misogynistic voices out there on Tiktok and YouTube who appear "cool" and "fun" to young lads when they are in reality quite malign. Or it could be that some of his peers have decided that it is cool to mock their mothers and put them down, either because they are copying the way their fathers behave

How come every thread on mn comes back to some form of male bashing and it being misogyny? The amount of people too who said he might be copying his father...wtf? No it is just a kid being cheeky,no women hating mission behind it.

There have being umpteen similar threads on girls doing the same to their mums and nobody ever says it's misgyony but when a boy does it the gloves are off.

[Workyticket]

He had a gaming console (well, it's DH's)

It's in the kitchen diner though and we can hear them chatting. His pals are quite often at ours and we hear them together too) it's all pretty innocent minecraft chat

He's not a bad kid. Tends to lean towards the negative side of things which we're trying to encourage him.away from but he's a food kid who I like spending time with usually.

Off for a blast in the pool!

[rookiemere]

Don't stop doing activities with your DS if you're both enjoying them.
The time will come soon enough when he won't want to do them.

I'll never forget DHs face when we were at the water park at Tenerife last year. For years this had been DH and DSs day - they'd get there early, get a fast pass and go round all the rides whilst I had a lovely day by the pool back at the apartment. Last year we went with another family and there were other school mates of DS there, so they all ganged together and had an amazing day. Poor DH though didn't know what to do with himself as his rides pal had gone.

[Middledazedted]

My older boys and their friends reflect their handling from around this age quite starkly. There were the loving, affectionate but don’t you bloody dare types of mum and the ones that said oh it’s just boys/teens and kept being sweet and smiling through rudeness. The first group have a great set of lads and relationships and the second set are still treated rudely. On a bigger scale it’s maybe not that controllable but the higher you value yourself then the higher value you keep.

[Simplelobsterhat]

Do you think you might be taking it a bit personally OP? It's hard to say but none if the examples you give are THAT bad, although taken all together it would bother me too. Are you sure it's only you he speaks to like that, never Dh?

Just thinking that for the past 2 or 3 years 12 yo dds worst nightmare us us singing or dancing in front of her, she seems to get acutely embarrassed even if no one else is around. I think finding your parents annoying and also wanting to challenge them a bit is quite usual for pre teens . With the ball throwing, to be honest that's often how I hear groups acting playing games of sports, particularly boys - lots of 'banter' and put downs I don't like it and I agree with pp who said you are right to pull him up on it because it's only 'banter' if both are happy with it, but it may be how his friends play.

I found at that age a lot of my daughters friends, particularly the boys, were quite negative and direct in what they said - wanting to be more grown up and 'equal' but no filter.

I think you do need to pull him up know it because he has to learn it is rude and to consider people's feelings, but don't take it personally or expect it to magically change overnight. If you are doing something for him and he criticises, stop doing it - I wouldn't be continuing to play ball after a warning or two, and he'd be sorting his own sunlounger. For things like singing or dancing, just laugh and say I know but I'm enjoying myself so who cares.

The other thing that has helped me with the preteen years is to remember they are often most moody, critical etc with the person they are closest to because they feel safe so don't have to hold things in. I'm not saying that means you should let it go, but it does make it less hurtful!

[BellePeppa]

My younger son was just like this, he could say really mean things as ‘banter’ but was actually a lovely child who never caused any trouble. I would always say that’s not nice and leave it at that and wait until later in the day to tell him just how hurtful this was (there was no point telling him when it happened as he would be too defensive). He’s in his late teens now and all that ‘banter’ has gone. Ignore the posters who are saying stupid stuff like slap him on the legs (really?). I would be careful about overdoing the praise though as it won’t set him up well for the bigger world.

[Bumpsadaisie]

@Workyticket

Thank you - some lovely advice here which I'll throw into place 2m.

I'll get dh on board with praising and being positive about me (he's lovely but not very verbal with these things so it'll help him too)

I think.i may well be reading my book a lot tomorrow

I really hoped to throw loads of time at ds and would happily throw the ball as long as he wanted but there's no chance I'm putting up with constant put downs

I may be off but I felt very suffocated. You talk a lot about throwing loads of time at your son? And loads of praise and positivity? You seem to spend a lot of time playing with him.

He's a 10 year old lad and he's working out how to cut the apron strings. He eves your attention but he has a drive inside too that is pushing him to separate from you. My youngest is 10 too and I noticed he is choosing to separate from me in some ways - walks to school alone, won't hold my hand off his friends are around etc.

I don't really play with either of my kids. They're on their screens or they're down playing football at the field or on bikes. We get together at mealtimes and we watch tv together in the evening. Sometimes we play monopoly. But I would never spend four hours playing ball!!

I just wonder if your ds is in a bind - he wants your attention but he feels too that something is a bit problematic with it.

[Bumpsadaisie]

I think this is a good time too for your DH to step in - "don't speak to your mother like that - or I will be very cross with you. She is my wife and I won't have you being rude like that".

Sets a boundary and also a separation between you and ds which may help if he feels too enmeshed with you.

[mikado1]

Had something like this at start of holidays where ds was trying to be funny. I think I told him quietly that while he thought it was funny he was the only one ad in fact it was really rude and everyone else knew that. He was a bit embarrassed and iediately apologised.

[Tereo]

Family holiday s can be strange intense times when odd things happen! And it can be very hard to change a dynamic during a holiday.
You have reminded me of a holiday when DS1 was 3 when he stopped speaking to me. He literally didn't speak to me for about a week, it was totally bizarre. He seemed so hostile towards me. His imaginary friend (who lasted for years) appeared for first time on that holiday coincidentally. I still have no idea what was going on but imagine it was some developmental stage. Me and DH ended up being so cross to him about it. I can't remember how it ended but I do remember feeling thoroughly miserable, getting up each day wondering would he still be doing it and he was!
He's now 16 and an absolute dote, the easiest, cheeriest of my 3 kids. Love spending time with him. Wonder what it was all about!

[Limecoconutice]

@SurfBox

There are some really misogynistic voices out there on Tiktok and YouTube who appear "cool" and "fun" to young lads when they are in reality quite malign. Or it could be that some of his peers have decided that it is cool to mock their mothers and put them down, either because they are copying the way their fathers behave

How come every thread on mn comes back to some form of male bashing and it being misogyny? The amount of people too who said he might be copying his father...wtf? No it is just a kid being cheeky,no women hating mission behind it.

There have being umpteen similar threads on girls doing the same to their mums and nobody ever says it's misgyony but when a boy does it the gloves are off.

While I take your point about teenage girls being cheeky too, and part of this being about normal teen rebellion, I urge you to just look at some of the content available to young boys on Tiktok to take one example. It is misogynistic in the extreme.

Just because it is not the only reason for rude and dismissive behaviour from teens it doesn't mean that it is not one of them.

And behaviour like this doesn't just occur in a vacuum! Everyone is influenced by what is going on around them, especially the young! You only have to look at the amount of videos on You Tube which feature "Karens" eg middle aged women, who are supposedly behaving badly. Older or middle aged women are not valued by society at all.

I also know of girls who have been very rude and dismissive to their sahms and told them they are "worth nothing" because they are not earning for a period of time, even though they have spent that time devoting their energies in a different capacity on behalf of their families! That is internalised misogyny of a sort! [Although that view will probably be criticised on here.]

[1Inch]

You sound like a lovely and dedicated mum, too much so!

Take your attention off him a bit and focus it on you dh and yourself. I disagree with showering kids with praise as it can be confusing for kids. He is probably trying to loosen the apron strings and the more you do for him and with him the more he has to push you away. At 10, can't he find friends in he holiday resort? I know many mums who dote on their ds in this way, it's not always helpful.

[SurfBox]

And behaviour like this doesn't just occur in a vacuum! Everyone is influenced by what is going on around them, especially the young! You only have to look at the amount of videos on You Tube which feature "Karens" eg middle aged women, who are supposedly behaving badly. Older or middle aged women are not valued by society at all

i think it all goes wrong when we look for reasons/explanations for bad behaviour. It ends up blaming another outlet or excusing the child, you are thinking too much into it really. Also kids,boys and girls, were badly behaved well before tiktok, I know somebody will come along soon and tell me kids were angelic in their day and kids today are worse but that's being said in every generation....

Also kids are also cheeky to their fathers, I've seen it many times-is that misandry?

[Limecoconutice]

We'll have to agree to disagree Surfbox . I believe there is far more mysogyny present in society in general than misandry. And of course children reflect what is around them. Again, I believe that is one of the reasons, not all.

And sorry but what a strange way of parenting, to never consider reasons behind behaviour good or bad? I genuinely don't mean to be snippy but how do you make appropriate parenting decisions if you don't?

Surely your response to a child who is misbehaving owing to fatigue or anxiety, is totally different than to a child say, who is showing off to his friends by being deliberately unkind to someone?

[WeedingAClearPath]

I have witnessed lots of rude and silly behaviour from 10/11/12 year old girls towards their dad in public, quite similar to what the OP describes. I think it's when get a bit too big for their boots, often in year 6 and shows they feel safe with their parent. It's a bit embarrassing for the parent, but I'd go easy unless it went on fro too long.

[SafelySoftly]

1. Glad it seems to have improved. He honestly sounded overtired! Focus on getting him some more sleep
   
2. Has anyone mentioned he had presumably just left primary and is heading to secondary school? It’s a big time

[mathanxiety]

@Limecoconutice - I meant the child.

Low self esteem comes from praise and positivity that is not earned. A child of ten knows very well that the sun does not shine forth from his rear end. A parent who expects very little of him apart from waking up each day and being the light of her life is doing him no favours.

[mathanxiety]

@Workyticket - what were the parents of the child you played bat and ball with doing while you entertained their child?

You are presenting yourself to the children at this resort as one of them.

[Limecoconutice]

Thanks for explaining mathanxiety

[Workyticket]

@mathanxiety I've no idea - a couple.of dad's have been in the pool playing way more than me and his daughter is about 15!

I'm 44 but still like playing in the pool, I'd be bored otherwise. It's HOT so we're doing trips out in the evenings - I only have 2 books with me so I play 😎

I've discovered there's a coffee and patisserie bar on site so I'm off there this afternoon for an hour on my own. Ds has made pals so will play with them too

[StridTheKiller]

DD8 learnt early on that if she is rude and obnoxious I simply won't play whatever I'm being niggled about. Boundaries OP!

[BusyMum47]

@LondonWolf

My children are told firmly not to speak to me like that. It is made very clear that that kind of sneery spite will result very quickly in the nice things I do for them being withdrawn and they know I mean it. I don't ignore it or brush it off,

Same! ⬆️

10yrs is old enough to know what he's doing, how his sniping will make you feel & that there will be consequences. He needs to learn that he can't talk to ANYONE like that. There's a difference between a bit of acceptable family banter & plain disrespect/unkindness.

You clearly adore him & from what you've said he gets PLENTY of time & attention from you so he's not reaching out for some sort of connection that he's lacking. He's just being bloody rude & bratty!!

Your husband needs to back you 100% & if necessary you should prepare for some consequences that you can carry out - regardless of the fact you're on holiday. I certainly wouldn't have continued to throw a ball with him for 4hrs after all his rudeness!!