Drinking while pregnant

[PreggieGoldilocks86]

Was at a bday party last weekend, good friends of my partner. I am pregnant in my first trimester and the wife of the bday boy is also pregnant, about half way along.

She asked if I’d had any drinks since finding out I was pregnant (I am a big drinker usually) and I said no, I was missing the booze but happy to give it up. She told me she’s been having the occasional drink here and there and had given herself a limit of 3 glasses of wine to have the night of the party so she could enjoy herself.

I was honestly a little in shock. They’ve had IVF to get to where they are so really want this baby. Obviously each to their own but AIBU to feel a bit thrown that she was happy to down 3 glasses of wine in one night while pregnant?! I didn’t really know what to say. Maybe this casual drinking while pregnant is more popular than I realise? Do I need to loosen up?! Haha

I am in the no drink when pregnant category. Drinking half a bottle of wine is a huge amount and I would judge anyone for drinking this amount.

I don't drink at all when pregnant. I actually disagree with it and would never have risked giving my children a lifelong disabilities for the sake of alcohol. However 3 glasses of wine is a bottle and actually a lot of alcohol and definitely far to much when pregnant. The advice is no alcohol as they don't know how much is too much.

@ChiselandBits but it’s a complete unknown. There is no safe amount of alcohol that can be consumed in pregnancy. No safe amount means that yes, every drink is a risk. Every pregnant mother and every foetus will have its own unique reaction that just cannot be pre-determined.

How much cocaine would you say it’s safe to do in pregnancy? How much heroin? I bet you would be sickened at someone shooting up “just once” in pregnancy but it’s statistically safer to the babies development.

I'm not happy with some of the references to FASD.
The link @Goodskin46 provided shows a study of 3 primary schools in Manchester, the children being aged 8-9. 3 classes of 8-9 year olds is not a big enough sample size for my liking.

The guidance is to not drink. No problem. But you suggest a Christmas sniff of a thimble of sherry, or an occasional wine is possibly going to lead to FAS, which is a very serious condition that deserves respect, is misleading.

I honestly think it’s insanity to have a three drink ‘limit’ on one night while pregnant when you have had to go through IVF for the baby!

I’d had a banger of a night the day before I found out I was pregnant and I was absolutely in bits at my booking appointment. The midwife was a bit older and was so kind and sensible. Also had a PHD on the effects of alcohol on pregnancy! She reassured me completely that it has to be quite heavy drinking to affect the foetus at a very particular stage to cause harm.
That said, I didn’t drink anymore in 1st trimester and had a small glass of wine after each scan to celebrate. So probably 4/5 drinks in total throughout. That said, I was going through an unbelievably awful time at a toxic workplace and wa so stressed that the odd G&T may have actually worked to offset the stress 🤷🏼‍♀️

I do think that all the drs telling pregnant women to abstain totally and that the WHO advice that all women of conceiving age should abstain totally can get knotted

The thing is, FASD is so very difficult to diagnose. There’s no real diagnostic test for it and without facial features and a biological mother admitting to drinking there won’t be a diagnosis. But only something like a third of people with FASD have the facial features. Which means if a mother isn’t willing to admit to drinking in pregnancy, because in her mind “it was only a small glass of wine aka few times”, there wouldn’t ever be a diagnosis.

So diagnoses come from the children of biological mothers who are known to services to be drinking whilst pregnant, which then spurs on the idea that children with FASD are only born to alcoholics.

but the reality is that prior to the guidance coming in and going back some centuries, millions and millions of babies were born to mothers who would drink watered down wine for breakfast. "No safe amount" does not mean that any amount is unsafe. The data and the evidence on this is understandably very difficult to obtain and to quantify but common sense and observation would tell us that an occasional drink, here and there is not going to cause a problem. I don't know about cocaine and heroin simply because I have no knowledge of their chemistry. I do know that millions of women, me included, have been drunk very early on in pregnancy before they knew they were pregnant, to no ill effect. I am not saying that as an endorsement or that everyone should crack on, but I think there is a balance to be had that avoids the hysteria and judgemental, guilt inducing attitude of a sip of anything at anytime is playing Russian Roulette. It's just not and most experienced midwives would say the same to those clients who they know, using their professional judgement, can cope with nuance.

No it doesn’t. This kind of “you may have one drink or 3 bottles the effect is the same” mentality is nuts

As a previous poster has pointed out, there are key points in pregnancy when it's really not good to drink eg first trimester when the brain is developing and this probably leads to FAS.
However FAS isn't easy to diagnose as a lot of women won't admit to drinking during pregnancy so the child is probably labelled SEN instead.
I think in the 3rd trimester baby is essentially cooked so a few drinks won't hurt it. I simply wanted to point out the fact that FAS isn't about a few drinks here and there but taken at pivotal points during one's pregnancy could well impact the baby.
I would imagine there's a lot of grown adults today with undiagnosed FAS .

No it doesn’t. This kind of “you may have one drink or 3 bottles the effect is the same” mentality is nuts

I’m not saying the effect is the same. I’m saying the effect for both are unknown. So why risk it?

www.medicinesinpregnancy.org/Medicine--pregnancy/Alcohol/

I like a drink but I didn't drink at all while pregnant. I wasn't even tempted.
I read somewhere that the alcohol stays in the baby's system for 36 hours.
I also had IVF and tried everything I could think of to help get pregnant. I personally wouldn't drink while pregnant but I know people who do.

3 glasses is more than I would be ok having. 1 glass occasionally I think wouud be very unlikely to cause problems but official advice is there is no safe limit so best to avoid. A doctor i knew made a point of having a drunk in a pub whilst very obviously pregnant because she knew the risk is very low with just 1 and some people make a big fuss about pregnant women drinking. I found I didn't fancy alcohol at all so although I wouldn't have felt guilty about 1 drink I just didn't fancy it (I also went off caffeinated drinks).

If you are the sort of person who can't have just 1 drink then giving up completely probably not sensible option

FAS and FASD are two different conditions. Really important not to conflate them.

FAS is the one that children of alcoholics get. Caused by very heavy drinking. Relatively easy to diagnose due to the distinctive facial features.

FASD (foetal alcohol spectrum disorder) is more subtle. It is caused by much, much lower levels of drinking during pregnancy. The child will not have the facial features of a FAS child, and will not have the severe learning difficulties of a FAS, but they will have some degree of learning and emotional difficulties and some impact to IQ. The impact on the child depends on if the mother had a drink at a critical development point for the foetus, which can only be known after the event. So not all children born to drinking mothers will get it. But what a gamble to take with your child's future.

There is a growing body of research about the prevalence and effect of FASD. It is frightening. There are studies of disadvantaged US communities where low level drinking in pregnancy is common. So many children are affected, and on a population level it embeds the community's disadvantage.

My children are all in their 30s. When i was pregnant we weren't given specific medical advice about alcohol. My first child was unplanned so I know I had a couple of heavy social evenings before discovering I was pregnant with him. He has a 1st class Masters in Engineering so I don't think I harmed him! With my others I drank as normal- in moderation on special occasions

A lot of it is down to the per prion that, if you tell someone to cut down, they won’t but, if you tell them to stop, they’ll cut down.

I took my advice on drinking through pregnancy (and other risky behaviours) from the Emily Oster book ‘Expecting Better’ as mentioned by previous posters on the thread. I did continue to have the occasional drink through my pregnancy (and through breastfeeding too) and informed my midwife who said she was just pleased I was upfront with her about it rather than being secretive!

And people are aghast that Roe vs Wade was overturned; but there are comments on here that are totally in line with the view that a pregnant body is just a vessel and the rights and needs of the foetus totally overrides that of the mother.
I am not disgusting or an alcoholic because I chose occasionally to have a drink whilst pregnant. The judgemental approach and the guilt poured upon pregnant mothers does far more damage in terms of the stress caused and the societal pressure and condemnation that is yet again heaped on women. The patriarchy is well and truly at work here, controlling women’s bodies.
Jeez! Where is the sisterhood?

i Didn’t know I was pregnant with my oldest son until about 24 weeks. And I had been drinking through that period - not particularly heavily, but a couple of drinks a couple of times a week, and one evening where I got pretty drunk at what must have been about 17 weeks. He now has ADHD and anxiety, and I have long since worried it was probably the drinking while I was pregnant. And there ARE links between ADHD and alcohol in pregnancy. It’s a horrible feeling, knowing the difficulties I may have unwittingly caused him.

So, no, I wouldn’t take the risk drinking in pregnancy- beyond perhaps half a glass for a toast on 1 or 2 occasions! The idea that some people thing a small drink A DAY is ok, absolutely horrifies me.

I quit drinking entirely when pregnant. It was no hardship to me, because I'm a very minimal drinker anyway, but my babies were the most important thing.

I wouldn't (never had any alcohol in any of my pregnancies because I never wanted it and felt like it wasn't going to do anything GOOD, so why bother. Did have a few people rolling their eyes and saying "You can have a glass you know" but sod them.)

3 glasses in one go is a lot. But if you did it for one night only my guess is it would do no harm - women used to drink in pregnancy, and there are women who don't even know they're pregnant and drink heavily and it's all fine.

I wouldn't do it, and I'd be a bit shocked if a friend of mine were to say that, but I would also think for one night it's likely to all be fine.

I would hope that the sisterhood is entirely in favour of women being given a full understanding of the known and unknown risks of alcohol in pregnancy so they can make informed choices about their bodies.

If the sisterhood instead wants to ignore the latest scientific understandings of FASD in case it makes some women feel bad about their choices then the sisterhood can go whistle. Mindlessly cheerleading alcohol in pregnancy robs other women of their agency.

There is no evidence that an occasional drink in pregnancy causes FASD. Its scaremongering and using pregnancy to control women's behaviour. Anxiety in pregnancy is going to be more troublesome than the odd glass of wine at a wedding or family get together.

Its amazing how the litany of controls women are expected to adopt never includes anything which impairs their ability to serve others.
It only ever tells women to stop doing things which they might otherwise enjoy.

There is no evidence that an occasional drink in pregnancy causes FASD. Its scaremongering and using pregnancy to control women's behaviour. Anxiety in pregnancy is going to be more troublesome than the odd glass of wine at a wedding or family get together.
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Its amazing how the litany of controls women are expected to adopt never includes anything which impairs their ability to serve others. It only ever tells women to stop doing things which they might otherwise enjoy.*

The ethics of doing research on pregnant women means that the exact quantity and timing of alcohol needed to cause FASD will most likely remain unclear.

Using that as a basis for saying that there is no evidence for low levels of alcohol resulting in foetal damage, and dismissing any warnings as "scaremongering" is going to result in more women unknowingly causing their child to be affected. What a thing to do to those women.

Positioning doing that as freeing women from control is just incorrect. Women cannot have control of their bodies if the facts are hidden by ideologues. And ultimately, which is the bigger infringement on a woman's freedom - not drinking for 9 months, or spending 18 years parenting a child with FASD?

@lookleft brilliant post, well done. I’m spending my afternoon putting together a completely DIY package of intensive therapy for my child who hits, punches, kicks me on a daily basis that is down to his biological mothers decision to drink (not even to excess) during pregnancy. If others want to willingly put themselves and their child through that for a small glass of wine when they fancy it then I really don’t care. They can risk it as long as they know that’s the reality of their risk.