BFFs parent has accused DC of being a bully

[Worriedmum247]

NC as potentially outing. Looking for input for how to respond to parent.

Out of the blue lengthy email from parent of BFF yesterday accusing DC of bullying on play date and other times. BFFs cousin (age 2.5 I think) also present. Example given was DC bluntly pointed out that a physical attribute on the cousin was the same as BFFs-as an example think shape of nose but using an adjective that could be perceived as negative. Also said this comment was made during previous school year though no complaints made to school or myself.

DC found other child utterly lovely and was really taken with them. DC thought the physical attribute was cute. I have absolutely no doubt that there was no malice in the comment whatsoever. DC was just commenting on the physical attribute though I can see how the comment might not be well received.

Parent referenced bullying at a previous school as a result of skin colour.
I have encouraged the friendship as skin colour of no consequence to me and DC has been raised to be kind not see colour etc and to celebrate differences.

DC has no history of bullying and never before been accused of being one. Model child at school, has won recognition for good behaviour; teachers always comment on DCs kindness.

I have in the past noticed subtle (and minor) passive aggressive comments from BFF towards DC but have dismissed them as children growing up and working out how to express themselves ; it seems churlish to point them out now.

Bullying is defined by the ABA as:
“the repetitive, intentional hurting of one person or group by another person or group”.

Isn’t calling this bullying an exaggeration?

I’m not trying to suggest that DC hasn’t made these comments but I think they have been made more as observations rather than any intention to harm. I can of course discuss with DC and explain how comments have caused upset.

How should I respond to the parent?

You’re right, she didn’t say she dislikes her own hair. But she makes an assumption that most other people hate it and that the reason they do is because they associate it with Irish/BAME hair. Which says something about her own views on being Irish/BAME.

Which shows how so many people have views which leak out even when they are making what they think is an innocuous statement.

Which, to me, shows why so many people can seem so “sensitive” to apparently “harmless” comments.

Which shows why you probably shouldn’t make personal comments on anyone’s physical appearance if you genuinely want to avoid upset.

”I haven’t mentioned what was said as potentially outing”
I think if they were reading your post they would already know it was about them so you might as well just say 🤦🏼‍♀️🤷‍♀️

OP,

Your child was in the wrong to be remarking on appearance, cute or otherwise.

11 is a sensitive age and she really should know better.

I think a sincere apology whilst reiterating that no offence was meant.

Take some space from this friend and hopefully your daughter will learn from it.

Nobody likes remarks about their appearance, and that is why parents teach young children to keep their remarks to themselves.

I would be embarrassed that my child didn't know this at 11, so explain it clearly, that irrespective of her intention, remarks on anyone's appearance is wrong and will cause offence.

I really wouldn't try and defend this.
Own it.
Apologise for it.
Learn from it.

I don't think you're understanding or trying to hear what either @Minimalme or myself are saying. It's not our own internalised assumption that people don't like it. It's that there is a constant assertion by others that we must surely hate it. How could that possibly not leave us with the impression that curly hair is undesirable to many people?
I've never given much thought to why people seem to dislike curly hair but obviously curly hair is a common feature in black people and Irish people so I can certainly see why, knowing that both of these demographics face discrimination, @Minimalme is pondering on whether there's a connection between those prejudices and a dislike for curly hair in general. It's an incredible leap and very offensive to suggest that anything she has written suggests that she is racist herself.

I wouldn’t have thought curly hair was especially common in Irish people.

Anyway, that aside, yes, it’s a leap to assume that just because people hate your curly hair it’s because they associate it with certain groups of people, whoever they may be. Maybe they assume curly hair is difficult to maintain. Or just dislike how it looks full stop. Lots of reasons, which may have nothing to do with race at all. Yet the pp jumped to assume it was a race thing. Why was that, if not because of her own views?

@Outlyingtrout I think it's because for ages curls were associated with being untidy or unprofessional. They was called frizzy and messy and portrayed as undesirable. I straightened my hair in my teens and twenties because of constant advertising about perfect sleek straight hair. It's changed a lot in recent years however and I've noticed curls are being celebrated a lot more :) There are a lot more products to choose from and curly salons etc.

I've learnt to love my curls and now know how to get the best of out of them :)

*they were

Ugh I wish this site had an edit button x__x

@Thereisnolight

I like my hair very much which I have always said in response to those who tell me I "must hate it".

@Outlyingtrout you have beautifully expressed what I was trying to say.

I have also been told my hair is like pubes many, many times and was once called the 'N' word when I worked in a pub at 18.

ALL OF THIS.

There is a bit of tendency for 'model students' in primary school to be a bit nasty and pious if they think others don't quite come up to their exacting standards.

It's always a difficult one as the second another child says something back the parent takes the side of the 'perfect' child.

I'd talk to the child ask them to tell you honestly what has happened and if they can't then talk to the parent about it.

OP it is impossible to have a view on this without more information. You say the comment was in no way race related, so I will use an example not related to race. So for example if your DC commented that both children have the same gap between their teeth - it is rude to comment, plus maybe your DC already knows that BFF hates the gap. Therefore keeping on mentioning it could definitely be perceived as bullying.

Whereas is the comment related to a small birthmark in an obscure place that BFF has never mentioned negatively, then that would be more innocent.

Context is everything!

@Thereisnolight very curly hair in people with Celtic origins isn't common but more prevalent than in other white communities.

You have strong opinions on something you know very little about.

And the idea that I must secretly dislike and be prejudiced against people with curly hair - now that really would be an achievement wouldn't it?

Just to agree with what a lot of people are saying, pointing out features - whether your dd thinks they are cute or not is just rude. My dd had a friend who used to constantly make comments about how short my dd was. In the end, dd just called time on the friendship. The friend was really keen on my dd and tried to keep the friendship going but dd had just had enough of the small jokes.

I bumped into the friend's mum a few years later and she made a slightly snidey comment about how my dd didn't want to be friends with her dd and how sad that had made her dd and so I just told her why. In fairness to the Mum she did say she could see how that would be really annoying! I just hoped she passed the message on to her dd!

Man talk about a bunch of overreactions. One kid made rude comment to other kid. OUTRAGE! Get the parents involved! Tell the internet!

So many ppl in here jumping over themselves to assume your child made a racist comment when you've clearly stated it wasn't race related. I understand what you mean about not seeing colour, obviously you can see it but it's not an issue and you don't judge ppl by it or treat them differently because of it. I am the same and don't make an issue of it to my children.
If your child has made a comment that has upset their friend, I would just apologise to the parent, explain there was no ill intention but that you will speak to your child and ask them not to mention ut again.
Just have a chat with your child, reassure them you understand they didn't mean it in a bad way but that it's probably best not to talk about ppls physical appearance, especially now this friend as some people don't like it and it can upset them.

Forgive me if this seems like a derail, but wow I never realised before reading this thread that it's considered completely unacceptable to comment on curls! I have naturally curly hair that I spent my childhood and early teens hating, my mid-teens trying all sorts of things (including a clothes iron - bad idea near your face!) trying to control, my late teens and early twenties beating into submission before finally learning to embrace it in my mid twenties.

When I see beautiful curls on a child of any colour today, I often impulsively comment on how gorgeous they are. Mostly because they are! but also because my life would have been a lot easier if I'd learned to love mine earlier. I can see how that could be annoying though.

Is this something I shouldn't be doing? Or shouldn't be doing if it's a person of colour?

Most PPs seem to be ignoring the OP having said that it's definitely not race-related.

Obviously it's not likely to be red hair, if the child is of a different race, but as an example - I would expect an 11 year old to know better than to comment on someone's hair colour in an intentionally negative way. But I wouldn't necessarily expect an 11 year to know that people get teased about having red hair, or that 'ginger' is often used as an insult. So I can imagine the OP's DS saying he loves the toddler's ginger hair, and this being taken as an insult.

Everyone saying that a child should know better to comment on appearance at all is talking out of their arse, IMO. Adults comment on appearance all the time - it's one of the commonest ways of complimenting someone. How TF is an 11 year old supposed to know not to do it?

You mightn’t hate your own hair (which is probably perfectly lovely) - but you made an assumption as to the reason others may.

Also - trivial point I know - curly hair really isn’t more prevalent in either Irish people or people of Celtic origin than it is in any other country I’ve been to or lived in.

It has turned into a thread about race OP, too much projection and you won't get many helpful answers

Well it does seem that commenting on physical appearance is going out of fashion because it upsets too many people - rightly or wrongly.

Exactly, it's what comes of labelling every little thing 'bullying', it's my experience that it's usually tit for tat.

@Outlyingtrout I have only ever heard white people with very curly hair complain about it. I have heard black friends say positive things about their hair, but never white friends. It is always complaints about how hard it is to manage, how long it takes to wash, or the difficulty in styling it. I do not have curly hair but had assumed that white curly hair was very difficult to manage from all these comments.

@Worriedmum247 I am aware that you talk about your child as if they are very young. I am not the only one who initially assumed your child was much younger. I wonder if you still think of your child as a very young child and this is colouring your perceptions?
What is more understandable at 5 years old, is not acceptable in an 11-year-old. It can be hard sometimes to see how much our children have grown up.

I don't know what he said but I think there are things that can seem harmless but can be a bit of a trigger. This is probably a poor example but I'm covered in freckles, as a child people would always comment, some positive and some negative. The trouble was I was so sick of hearing about my freckles that it didn't matter if someone was saying they loved freckles because it just irritated me.

The only people who do it now are the GC who frequently tell me how glad they are they didn't inherit freckles. Children don't always mean to be nasty but it can upset people, fortunately I'm past being bothered but it can be hard for a child.

My ginger hair on the other hand always attracted negative comments so no innocents on that topic.

I'd apologise and move on. If the boys are irritating each other it might be good to move on.