BFFs parent has accused DC of being a bully

[Worriedmum247]

NC as potentially outing. Looking for input for how to respond to parent.

Out of the blue lengthy email from parent of BFF yesterday accusing DC of bullying on play date and other times. BFFs cousin (age 2.5 I think) also present. Example given was DC bluntly pointed out that a physical attribute on the cousin was the same as BFFs-as an example think shape of nose but using an adjective that could be perceived as negative. Also said this comment was made during previous school year though no complaints made to school or myself.

DC found other child utterly lovely and was really taken with them. DC thought the physical attribute was cute. I have absolutely no doubt that there was no malice in the comment whatsoever. DC was just commenting on the physical attribute though I can see how the comment might not be well received.

Parent referenced bullying at a previous school as a result of skin colour.
I have encouraged the friendship as skin colour of no consequence to me and DC has been raised to be kind not see colour etc and to celebrate differences.

DC has no history of bullying and never before been accused of being one. Model child at school, has won recognition for good behaviour; teachers always comment on DCs kindness.

I have in the past noticed subtle (and minor) passive aggressive comments from BFF towards DC but have dismissed them as children growing up and working out how to express themselves ; it seems churlish to point them out now.

Bullying is defined by the ABA as:
“the repetitive, intentional hurting of one person or group by another person or group”.

Isn’t calling this bullying an exaggeration?

I’m not trying to suggest that DC hasn’t made these comments but I think they have been made more as observations rather than any intention to harm. I can of course discuss with DC and explain how comments have caused upset.

How should I respond to the parent?

It seems that the other parent believes it is race related and you don’t but then spend time explaining how your family don’t see race - but don’t seem to see that this isn’t your call …. it’s the recipient of the frequently repeated over the years comments who gets to verbalise how it impacts them.

If this was a clumsy comment then the right thing to do is 100% unreserved apology with no attempts to minimise their feelings with excuses or explanations.

I would be concerned that your 11 year old was without the sensitivity to pick up the impact on the other child (even if didn’t say anything at the time or complain to the school) when they had said something inappropriate.

Also your initial stance is very defensive of your child and critical of the other parent - which rejects the other child’s feelings from the off. A more open to discussion, understanding, learning, acceptance and collaboration could reset this friendship, heal the hurt and educate you and your child. Are you up for that?

Ginger hair?

Argh sorry OP but you sound myopic here. 11 is old enough to know that personal comments about features aren't 'cute' or necessary. We're not talking about a 3 year old. At my school, a lot.of the most insidious bullies at that age were bright and perfectly behaved otherwise. I'm sure they've grown up into nice people but they definitely had a side at that age. Not saying your child is necessarily an insidious bully but it does sound like they're making inappropriate comments. And to be honest, from your post I'm not surprised.

Even saying the bit about not seeing colour shows you're out of touch with what is acceptable race wise. Colour and race are a big part of our identity, whether we are the majority in an area or not. Pretending these attributes don't exist is erasure. It is suggesting that the problems people experience are not real. This has long been an ignorant thing to say.

Why not do some reading about microagressions, have a good discussion with your DC about what was said, their intentions and how to move forward, then apologise to this woman and ensure that you and your DC are better equipped in future for dealing with a world in which it is no longer ok to pretend racial differences do not exist or need to be performatively celebrated.

'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo Lodge, or 'Natives' by Akala are good books on this.

This is one of those occasions where if you want any advice other than “apologise and talk to your DD” you’re going to have to be specific and say what the comment was.

Thanks for all replies and to those who pointed out dc should know better. I will definitely be having a chat with dc.

Glad you're going to have a chat. From the OP i thought they were all small children but at 11 they absolutely should know better than to comment on physical appearances or at least think very carefully about how their comments might be perceived and choose better words.

Whether offence was meant by the comment or not it was clearly taken this way. They could be over sensitive as in the past you say they have been subject of racism. I would apologise and explain that your child did not mean offence however you will be having a chat with them. If it was me I would be slightly upset that they didn’t have the confident to speak directly to me if they have been friends for a long time. I speak from experience when I say what one sees as offence another doesn’t. We all react according to experience. I once had a lovely BF as a 20 something and it was a hard friendship as she had sadly had a hard life but it made her react strongly to a lot of things that anyone else wouldn’t. Chat to your child and hopefully that will be the end of it.

We have a rule in our family about comments, they are barbs if they hurt the other person, intended or not. It is how a comment is received that causes the hurt not how it was intended. Just recognise the hurt caused and dial the issue back by apologising profusely and explaining to your son that his comments caused offence. It doesn’t matter of it was bullying or not your son’s comments hurt someone’s feelings. Recognising that and dealing with it can end the issue. I’d speak to your friend directly.

11 is way too old to be commenting on personal appearance. Also I'm impressed you know it wasn't race related considering your friend is implying it is. I'm white and aside from the obvious/obnoxious I don't know if I'd be aware of the many many ways people who aren't white are stereotyped or treated unkindly. If my friend inferred my son or I had said something I'd be accepting it and apologising. Regardless of intent. And that's why you need to be sensitive to what you say- offence causes unwittingly is still offence.

It made me realise most people assume society hates curly hair (presumably because of Irish/BAME connections) and believe themselves to be different because they 'love it'.

What? That is convoluted. I think everyone admires a head of curls except people with a head of curls. They mostly complain about the difficulty of getting a good haircut/hair care in general, but always assumed they must be a bit proud of it too because it is gorgeous.

As for 11 yr olds never commenting on appearance - adults do all the time. I meet someone with my sister or daughter and they comment on how similar we are. Is that not what OP's child is doing? Aw look she has your elbows or whatever it is. It's unfortunate it turned out to be a feature the child didn't like and that should of course be apologised for. It's not the huge social crime people are trying to make out.

So you mention to your child, your child will presumably be horrified to have upset their friend, you both convey sincere apologies and you ask if there's anything else they were upset about because your child really admires their child and would hate to lose the friendship.

Okay - apologise say you will be talking to your child.

Then talk to your child about not making personal remarks about appearance.

I have in the past noticed subtle (and minor) passive aggressive comments from BFF towards DC but have dismissed them as children growing up and working out how to express themselves ; it seems churlish to point them out now.

I wouldn't point this out now - but I would be wary of any indication to your DC that this is normal or acceptable behaviour that they should just accept.

At 11 they are possibly starting secondary soon - in which case widening of friendship group could do them both some good.

DC was just commenting on the physical attribute though I can see how the comment might not be well received then speak to your DC so they can see this too

Might also be worth getting your DC to apologise to friend - as I assume they didn't want to upset them.

I don't think "at 11 years old a child should know better" is fair or realistic. I think it pushes responsibility onto the child for what is actually a failure on the behalf of their parents. An 11 year old child will largely behave how they've been shown/taught to behave. Clearly this child has not been taught that it's wrong and potentially harmful to make unsolicited comments about another person's body or appearance, whether or not that comment is intended to be positive. That's something that should have been organically taught from day one, not something to "have a conversation about" now it's (predictably) become an issue at age 11.
The comments about race are very weird in the OP and hopefully the people who've picked up on that will give OP pause for thought to examine their attitudes.

So you dislike your curly hair because it’s curly like Irish(?) and BAME(?) hair which most of society dislikes?

Well I never.

That’s pretty covertly negative in itself, and all coming from you!

I do think people can be a little confused about how to mention other peoples’ race. Should they not mention it - thus not othering them? Or should they acknowledge it because it’s part of them? Both approaches have been put forward in this thread. There’s no stock answer as people of all races will have different thoughts on the matter.

Bottom line though - don’t comment on someone’s appearance as you never know what people might be sensitive to.

Not sure, I would need to know exactly what was said.

And your DCs “friendship” may well have reached the end of the road.

You do see colour unless you’re colourblind so it’s totally nonsense to pretend you don’t.

If your DC was 4/5 years old this wouldn’t be so bad but an 11 year old knows right from wrong and pointing out a physical attribute related to a person’s race is racist and also rude. I’m going to guess it was something like Afro hair, really irritating when people comment on it and definitely irritating when strangers touch it. Your DC was absolutely wrong and you need to have a strong conversation about this.

I thought you were going to say they were 5 or 6. Just have a word with your DS that he has upset his friend. Apologise and move on. Although I am wondering if there is a bit more to it than you may know and things have been rumbling on and this was the final straw 🤷‍♀️

I think all this at ‘11 years old a child should know better’ is fair enough but not always the case.All you Mumsnetters can’t be so perfect that you haven’t ever said the wrong thing or cause unnecessary upset! Adults sometimes mess things up and accidentally make unnecessary or rude comments so I’m damn sure children can make that mistake too. We are not all angels who say the perfect thing every time, sometimes we make well meaning comments that are also taken the wrong way completely but the intent was meant to be kind. It’s very hard to judge without knowing exactly what was said. However your son has clearly upset someone close to him so needs to apologise and take responsibility for that. It’s a good lesson to learn going forward.

This is a really interesting article about how not mentioning skin colour actually results in kids being more prejudiced. It’s part of a chapter longer chapter in an amazing and surprising book called Nurture Shock that looks at child rearing in relation to psychological research on kids. Really changed how I parented in a positive way (how to praise effectively, creating positive sibling relationships etc).

Despite being raised in a very multicultural community myself and having BAME friends who were comfortable talking about skin colour, black identity etc, as a white person I found mentioning skin colour and even referring to someone as ‘black’ really difficult to start with, but you get used to it, and after a while you realise how odd the silence is.

www.newsweek.com/even-babies-discriminate-nurtureshock-excerpt-79233?amp=1

Did @Minimalme say she didn't like her own hair? Certainly she didn't in the quoted comment although perhaps I missed a previous one.
I have curly hair and recognise the kind of comments she's talking about. When you are told (hundreds of times over a lifetime) that "I bet you must hate it", yes it does leave you with the impression that people think curly hair is undesirable. Why else would they assume that I'd hate it when I've given no indication that that's the case? I like my hair! And like @Minimalme says they do also weirdly seem to want some brownie points for the fact that they've graciously complimented me on my unlovable hair that even I must surely hate.

You should speak to the parents...

Another one who was shocked the child is 11.
why haven’t you taught them that it is rude to make personal comments? Are they always so blunt/tactless?

you both need to apologise to other mum and child.