Pronouns - Can someone remind me why we are against this in emails

[landantan]

Hi

Can someone remind me why some people (likely myself included) does not agree with stated pronouns in email signatures?

It is being requested at work from the perspective of being a small step to being an ally to LGBTQ+ community.

I just think it is a bit pointless and whilst I have nothing against this or any other community I cannot see what knowing or sharing pronouns really does apart from make you look like a bit of a tit.

Can someone offer a more articulate explanation please?

Why not just have an email signature that says:

Alex Smith
Job title
Please note: I am female

No need for gender nonsense at all.

trans people use preferred pronouns in their signatures to avoid being misgendered

I don't actually think it's even a trans issue. If you were Gemma and now you are George, people will call you he.

The only real issue is someone who is non-binary and wants to be they.

Pronouns are bollocks! Who cares what your pronouns are? Whose business is it but yours?

My name is a female name. I identified as female because I AM female.

Take a name which could be used for either sex, ie 'Charlie' (could be Charles - typically masculine - or Charlotte - typically feminine, for example). If an email is signed off by 'Charlie', you don't need to refer to them as she/her OR he/him. All you need to refer to them as is CHARLIE.

PC madness gone even bloody madder.

Mr doesn’t reveal a marital status, it’s only women who are expected to do that. Why do you think that is?

I saw an advert on Facebook today showing that Lloyds Pharmacy are including pronouns on employee name badges.

Ahh yes, the days when women couldn’t get credit without their husbands permission, good times. 🙄

Because women are generally regarded as less competent than men and their work is often considered inferior to men's, even if the work is identical. The best way for women to be treated as professional is for them not to identify their gender. If a woman can simply be regarded as a person, her work and opinion will be held in higher regard.

Unfortunately there are plenty of examples of this. Here's one...

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html%3famp

This.

As a woman who has spent decades trying to be professional and overcome the impact of gender bias, I would not want to identify my gender on letters or emails.

🤣🤣

Mainly because it’s ridiculous. I have only ever had one email with a pronoun on. I’d heard about it on mumsnet but wasn’t sure it happened in real life. I don’t know this person, I have no reason to talk about her to anyone else, and even if I did why would she care?

For me, it is akin to being asked to state Catholic or Protestant on my email signature. I don't adhere to gender ideology or any form of the Christian Church. I don't have a gender identity or religion. And I couldn't give a flying fuck if any on my clients refer to me as "he". This is quite a frequent occurrence as despite having a classic English woman's name many of my clients are from non-English speaking cultures and have no idea about English names.

Why even bother doing that? Why is it necessary to declare your sex to someone you're emailing in a business context?

We shouldn't be putting pronouns on our mail because at best, it's just nonsense.

And at worst, it will lead to the perceived erasure of sex as binary. Women will be the losers here.

Just say no!

👏

I can see that using pronouns has some merit in making people feel included- it means we do not misgender people and we refer to them in a way they are comfortable with. So far so good. However, the problems start to come when this starts to become expected and what is voluntary actually becomes compulsory. For example we have undertaken a number of training courses recently where the starting point is tell us about yourself which includes pronouns. To not join in, looks really awkward. In short it has crept to being quasi compulsory.

Yesterday my business changed its diversity policy. It now states that transgender people are free to use the gender specific toilet with which they currently identify. So a genetic male can now use the ladies toilet. I thought this was against the law? However this is now our HR policy which also states that non compliance will lead to disciplinary action. In my business, way before you get to disciplinary you would have significant issues with a powerful internal lobby that would effectively ostracise you. So if you want to keep your job, you keep quiet. Unions and usual HR protections operate poorly in this space and I have seen this in practice.

Why not just have an email signature that says:

Alex Smith
Job title
Please note: I am female

No need for gender nonsense at all.

What's wrong with:

Alex Smith (Ms)

Much more concise.

It goes against my philosophical beliefs because it goes hand in hand with believing in the concept of gender identity. When it was suggested by someone at work I said I didn’t feel comfortable with this and wouldn’t do it to my boss and it was dropped. Thankfully.

It's unprofessional. We all agree that sex / gender should not matter in the workplace, so what is the need for it?

Also what others have said. I don't want to emphasise to people that I'm female when doing business with them. They know I am from my name, but having it there in black and white feels like I'm bringing more discrimination against myself. I also think it's terrible to force people who might not be ready to share their gender identity to either have to pretend and bury their identity deeper, or out themselves. Also it's no one's business. And, it's a signature, not my life story or my twitter bio or whatever. Shall I put "mother, wife, avid hiker, proud owner of two cats and a tomato plant" in my signature too?

Alex Smith
Job title
Please note: I am female

No need for gender nonsense at all.

But why does someone need to know that I'm female?
It doesn't impact on my ability to do my job but is likely to result in discrimination.

I’m gay. I have a unisex name. I don’t use pronouns in my signature or when announcing myself. I find it useful in business not to draw attention, randomly, that I am a woman, don’t mind be called a woman and am happy to be referred to as ‘she’ or ‘her’.
I have no issue with people asking that certain pronouns be used but I don’t agree that everyone else should eb ‘encouraged’ to use them as some act of solidarity.

My opinions are my own to share with who I like and where I like, not because my employer says so.
My sex...not bloody gender, sex! Is irrelevant to anyone else, particularly email recipients.
I refuse to participate in nonsense which is doing it's best to eradicate natural born females.
It makes a mockery of everything that women have fought hard for.
I will not ever be reduced to a bloody pronoun!

Someone upthread mentioned about it making it easier for gender neutral, well I say this ...
What are they doing to make it easier for women? Besides taking over our spaces and demanding that we're reduced to bloody womb carriers, people who menstruate and other such degrading rubbish.
No, I say again, I will never be reduced to a bloody pronoun. Ever!

I also know non- binary and trans people who disagree with pronoun use like this, they feel that it almost forces some people out of the closet before they are ready. I sat on a Pride work virtual get together with 60 people in 8 locations and every time someone spoke they announced their name and pronouns and not one of the people talking had a ‘pronoun’ that wasn’t obvious. The women, mostly gay or bi, looked like, sounded like women and were she/her. The men, mostly gay or bi, looked likeX sounded like men and used he/him.
so, really, what was the point??

One of the suppliers I deal with at work has someone who has transgendered. Never put their personal pronoun, just changed their name and said nothing.

Stating pronouns should be a personal choice, if made, respected, if not made, respected too.

It does quite the opposite of allying or uniting people but attempts to place them into strict categories that do not necessarily relate to reality.