Pronouns - Can someone remind me why we are against this in emails

[landantan]

Hi

Can someone remind me why some people (likely myself included) does not agree with stated pronouns in email signatures?

It is being requested at work from the perspective of being a small step to being an ally to LGBTQ+ community.

I just think it is a bit pointless and whilst I have nothing against this or any other community I cannot see what knowing or sharing pronouns really does apart from make you look like a bit of a tit.


Can someone offer a more articulate explanation please?

[Cantanka]

To me, it isn’t a simple step to making trans people feel more included. It’s a political statement of allegiance to a movement which is hostile to women who do not subscribe to gender ideology.

[CataTonic58]

Just be careful with the typos. He/she/tit.

[Anonymous48]

How can you be against something if you don't know why?

[Greensleeves]

1. some women feel that they should not be obliged to out themselves as female, in a society where sex discrimination is still very much a thing
   
   
2. some trans people aren't ready to out themselves yet either, and insisting on pronouns forces the issue
   
   
3. some GC people feel that making "these are my pronouns" mainstream panders to transgender ideology which is harmful to/in conflict with women's rights.

[NippyWoowoo]

You don't want to reveal a protected characteristic.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@NippyWoowoo

You don't want to reveal a protected characteristic.

And studies have shown that drawing your own and other's attention to your sex makes you worse at certain tasks and makes other people treat you differently.

Sexism is a thing.

[titchy]

It forces those struggling with their gender identity to decide their pronouns when they may not be publicly ready to do so.

Its bad for females who suffer from unconscious bias as it is.

It buys into the idea that everyone has a gender identity.

What other personal characteristics will be asked to be declared in an email signature to show allyship - ethnicity, religion, disability?

[AnneLovesGilbert]

There are lots of good reasons.

It’s not fair on people questioning their gender identity to force them to out themselves.

If you’re a woman you’re asking to be treated worse and paid less than make colleagues by advertising you’re female.

People who don’t subscribe to gender ideology and forced speech will think less of your company.

Your company wouldn’t tell employees to put their religion or lack of in their email signature. Gender identity is a belief system like any other.

Your sex and any gender identity you may have are probably irrelevant to your work.

[Hiphopopotamus]

So you think you’re against something but you’d like someone to tell you why? And it’s supposed to be the trans inclusive community that are brainwashing? 🙄

Its supposed to just be a way to support trans people. If only trans people use preferred pronouns in their signatures to avoid being misgendered, it singles them out as being trans. If we all do it as standard it takes away the stigma. It’s a simple thing we can do to make peoples lives easier.

[titchy]

@Hiphopopotamus

So you think you’re against something but you’d like someone to tell you why? And it’s supposed to be the trans inclusive community that are brainwashing? 🙄

Its supposed to just be a way to support trans people. If only trans people use preferred pronouns in their signatures to avoid being misgendered, it singles them out as being trans. If we all do it as standard it takes away the stigma. It’s a simple thing we can do to make peoples lives easier.

Sometimes something can feel 'off' and we may not be able to articulate why....

[landantan]

@Anonymous48

How can you be against something if you don't know why?

Because I recall reading something about it a while ago and forming an opinion that I would not be adding mine, but I can't remember the detail.

[NoodleNooNoo]

Personally, I dont like it because

1. as a woman in a male dominated industry there is already enough everyday sexism without me inviting it in by making it obvious that I am a woman to those who didnt know.
2. I dont identify as a woman. I just am one.
3. pronouns are genrally used by people about you in your absence so it doesnt really matter to me how Im referred to.
4. It doesn't help the people who it claism to help. If you are firm in your identity great. If you are unsure/questioning it forces you to either adopt a pronoun you are already struggling with or out yourself before you are ready.
5. The more people who do it, the more it is expected, the more it is becomes a statement if you dont.

[Cantanka]

@Hiphopopotamus

So you think you’re against something but you’d like someone to tell you why? And it’s supposed to be the trans inclusive community that are brainwashing? 🙄

Its supposed to just be a way to support trans people. If only trans people use preferred pronouns in their signatures to avoid being misgendered, it singles them out as being trans. If we all do it as standard it takes away the stigma. It’s a simple thing we can do to make peoples lives easier.

Simple? Do you accept it causes gender critical women to feel uncomfortable?

[SnackSizeRaisin]

I don't do it because (a) it's obvious from my name that I am female (b) I don't think it matters either way in a work context (c) if people do get it wrong I don't care (happens occasionally with foreigners) and (d) I don't agree with the whole trans thing. I mean if someone else wants to put they etc, I will respect that and use their preferred terms but I don't think there's any need for us all to get involved.

[landantan]

@Hiphopopotamus

So you think you’re against something but you’d like someone to tell you why? And it’s supposed to be the trans inclusive community that are brainwashing? 🙄

Its supposed to just be a way to support trans people. If only trans people use preferred pronouns in their signatures to avoid being misgendered, it singles them out as being trans. If we all do it as standard it takes away the stigma. It’s a simple thing we can do to make peoples lives easier.

I had read something along these lines a while ago that resonated with me

3) some GC people feel that making "these are my pronouns" mainstream panders to transgender ideology which is harmful to/in conflict with women's rights.



I do not wish for anything related to women (specifically people born with a vagina) to be eroded. Such as leaflets relating to menopause, pregnant women, trans people taking part in a sport which does not align with the sex they were born as.

It feels like chipping away at women but I am not good at articulating it.

[Anonymous48]

@landantan

Because I recall reading something about it a while ago and forming an opinion that I would not be adding mine, but I can't remember the detail.

You remember forming an opinion, but you don't remember what that opinion was? OK.
Obviously this isn't an important issue for you.

[onlywhenidream]

No one should be forced to have a gender identity

No one should be forced to reveal their sex or gender identity


Women may find the assertion of masculinity aggressive


No one should alter their behaviour based on sex or gender- stating sex or gender publicly makes it easy for people to discriminate and gives a message that the information is valuable - is supporting discrimination

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I always think about two workers from an organisation I frequently use. One is female, bog standard email signature. She is helpful, kind and will go very far out of her way to assist the really vulnerable people we work with. The other is a young man. Pronouns, Pride flag, BLM and other stuff in his signature. Never returns phone calls and has been the cause of issues with the vulnerable people (including those very people from his email signature).

Virtue signaling versus actually helping.

[landantan]

@Anonymous48

You remember forming an opinion, but you don't remember what that opinion was? OK.
Obviously this isn't an important issue for you.



If you see my other post I have tried to explain myself a bit better.

[Aquamarine1029]

My employer doesn't have the right to force me to be an "ally" for any cause, period. I have the responsibility to do my job effectively, be respectful and courteous to everyone I work with, and that is it. I don't want to announce/advertise my pronouns, therefore I won't.

[TinaYouFatLard]

Because it’s a nonsense day hung and I won’t participate in stupidity.

[SnackSizeRaisin]

@Hiphopopotamus

So you think you’re against something but you’d like someone to tell you why? And it’s supposed to be the trans inclusive community that are brainwashing? 🙄

Its supposed to just be a way to support trans people. If only trans people use preferred pronouns in their signatures to avoid being misgendered, it singles them out as being trans. If we all do it as standard it takes away the stigma. It’s a simple thing we can do to make peoples lives easier.

Hmm. If it's to avoid people getting their gender wrong they'd be better wearing a sign on their t shirt surely. For an email just use a male or female first name and there's generally no confusion. It's for face to face contact that confusion is likely to occur.

[TinaYouFatLard]

day hung??? Thing!

[brookstar]

It’s a simple thing we can do to make peoples lives easier.
Given that we know women are routinely discriminated against in the workplace I'm not sure it's making everyone's lives easier.

[Anonymous48]

@landantan

@Anonymous48

You remember forming an opinion, but you don't remember what that opinion was? OK.
Obviously this isn't an important issue for you.



If you see my other post I have tried to explain myself a bit better.

Oh, I understand. I just think it's ridiculous to ask other people what your opinion is or should be.