To be shocked that in the 21st century there's still a staggering amount of women who rely entirely on their husbands?

[EllieRosesMammy]

I see it far too often on MN, women saying their husbands have been cheating on them for years or treating them absolutely terribly, but saying they can't leave because they are entirely financially dependent on their husbands.

Is it just me who finds this mad in 2022? Or is it still normal for men to be 100% the provider of the household?

I just couldn't imagine being stuck in a rubbish situation simply because of money

I am absolutely in no way slating stay at home mums, or house wives here either. I just believe all women should be self sufficient enough that if they're in a bad situation they can walk away

my husband and I agree that it’s better if I don’t work” (fine, whatever, that’s your business) to “I think it’s sad that society doesn’t value SAHM or pay women to stay at home”. Why on earth should anyone else pay for someone to choose not to work?

@rainbowmilk
They shouldn't. I did say it was unfair that mums who would like to be at home can't for financial reasons, while a woman who has married a wealthy man can have the option of doing what she chooses. That doesn't equate to me believing that everyone should be subsidised.
Our society isn't fair. We're not all born into the same circumstances and have the same choices an opportunities on the table. Which is why families should be able to make the best decision based own their circumstances.

One of my female work colleagues worked full time while her husband stayed at home with the children. She earned significantly more than him. They were happy with their set up.
Another one of my friends worked full time while her husband worked part time so he could take/collect their child from school. Everyone's situation is different. Not everyone's job can facilitate the hours families need.

and men sharing full responsibility for their children

Ahhhh this can be done with a SAHM as well as a working mum !!!!!!

"I wouldnt"

You wouldn't marry a man who earned more than you? Wouldn't move abroad? Wouldn't do any job if you couldn't walk into the same role the next day?

This is your choice and you're free to do whatever you want. But, don't blame and rail against other people for being "high earners" or SAHMs because they were prepared to do things you're not prepared to do. That's not structural inequality. That's your choice to limit yourself to certain types of people and location.

Topgub you have such a strong opinion that men don't pull their weight with their children. This is leading me to believe that this is because of your own personal experience.

I don’t have a child, so the analogy doesn’t work.

I would be happy to pay (via taxes) for better childcare provision that allowed women to remain in the workforce and contribute themselves via their own tax. There is a societal benefit to women working and therefore an argument for society facilitating it. There is no societal benefit to SAHMs, so no I do not think society should pay for it.

There is no societal benefit to SAHMs
That depends in if you believe in nature or nurture.
There was in interesting documentary about this called Three Identical Strangers.

@tiggergoesbounce

I believe it makes a difference when there is a sahp.

Its crazy to suggest it doesn't when just about every sahm argues they're a sahm so they can do all the childcare themselves. And that they do most of the housework because they're at home.

Its irrelevant to wm because most wms don't have a sahp

You dont want to acknowledge the research. Thats fine. I cant make you. It doesn't make it any less true.

I havent said sahms keep other women out of the work place. And if I try to argue all the reasons why women are kept out of the work place I get accusations of being a tyrant forcing women to work and removing choices

@Foxgluv

No its from real life data and countless threads listening to women moaning about their useless ohs.

Are you ready to explain what you mean by bitter yet?

How about you @limemintice ?

@Foxgluv

What are the societal benefits of sahms

Mums specifically?

I think most parents produce children who go on to be averagely fine adults. To the extent that there are outliers i.e. children who grow into adults who harm others or cannot adapt to society, I do not believe that this outcome would have been different had they had a SAHM rather than a WOHM parent. What matters is the genetic make up (at home or work status irrelevant) and whether or not the parent is neglectful or abusive (again, at home or work status irrelevant).

There is no significant societal benefit to SAHMs that would justify society funding all women wanting to do it, to do it.

@topgub i see you didn't answer my question???

Do you believe by going to work you are forfeiting some of your parental responsibility???

@tiggergoesbounce

No.

Topgub, data and threads. Ffs. How many times, women are not going to start mumsnet threads about how happy and secure their life is. Those who don't need advice don't seek it.

Unless a child has an abusive or disinterested parent, no one will love and guide a child in the way a parent does.

So if you dont believe working has an effect on parental responsibility , then not working has no bearing on it either because the alternative provides no difference🤷‍♀️

There is no significant societal benefit to SAHMs that would justify society funding all women wanting to do it, to do it.
@rainbowmilk
Read my other response to you. I don't think they should be funded.

Why do you want me to psychoanalyse you? There are therapists for that.

I don't know why you are so bitter about SAHMs and high-earners. Its your own personal experiences that have brought you to this point?

As you kept asking. here are some ideas - you are not happy in your job? Maybe you feel you should be earning more? (fair enough). Maybe you are one if these people who feels perpetually hard done by? Maybe your marriage is not great? Maybe you have regrets about something with your kids? Maybe you have 'mum guilt?' Maybe your husband is useless / dopey / dragging you down? Maybe you are in denial about something? Maybe you feel people look down on you? Maybe you feel 'out of kilter' socially? Maybe you have had a difficult childhood? Maybe you have mental health issues / are not NT? Maybe you suffer from anxiety / depression? Maybe you are bored and like to wind people up? Maybe you are one of those MRA or horrible misogynistic men and not who you claim to be at all?

This is the internet and you could be anyone? Why are you asking me?

In which case we don’t disagree on that part @Foxgluv.

@topgub for your research and papers etc about the benefits of being a SAHM

There was actually a study published by Harvard business review showing that a norweigian cash incentive study was done, encouraging parents to stay at home, it shown a growth in the childrens education attainment, as the parents were more "available"

See you can use research, papers and professors to back up anything and it can all still be a load of tosh. 🤣

@topgub there was also a study showing that by having a SAHP the child has less stress and aggression (great for society..no) and they have better general behaviour ( again winner winner for society !!!)

Again a load of Tosh !!

Also TopGub, you claim you are not dependent in any way on your husband's salary. Do you not have shared finances?

@tiggergoesbounce More available than who? All of the other parents who were working? And did they find that every one of the SAHM children fared better than every one of the WOHM children? Or did they find that the children varied in academic ability according to their individuality, as you’d expect in any classroom around the UK?

A true comparison would need to be between the same parents and the same child. That’s obviously not possible short of sliding doors magic.

@limemintice

I'm asking you because you keep saying I am. Despite nothing I've said indicating I am

I'm not asking you to explain why I'm bitter. I'm not bitter

I'm asking you to explain why you've come to that conclusion

Your reply there proves that you think I'm jealous of sahm (not sure hy higher earners have been brought into it but im not jealous of them either)

You're obviously so biased you can't possibly imagine that anyone could not want to be one so you automatically presume anyone who doesn't is secretly jealous and wishing they were.

Either that or they must be mentally ill.

🤣🤣

@tiggergoesbounce

Yes, that research showed those findings.

But they were for sahp. Not sahms.

The findings were for a very specific set of circumstances.

Ie a sahp v a small baby in large, poor quality nursery 40 hours plus.

As we all know, those are not the only 2 options.

@rainbowmilk the study paid currently working parents to give up work and their childs grades improved with having a parent at home, as they were more "available" now. Allegedly.

My point was that you can find studys and papers to prove most arguments even the ridiculous

@limemintice

No.

I'm the higher earner anyway.