To be shocked that in the 21st century there's still a staggering amount of women who rely entirely on their husbands?

[EllieRosesMammy]

I see it far too often on MN, women saying their husbands have been cheating on them for years or treating them absolutely terribly, but saying they can't leave because they are entirely financially dependent on their husbands.

Is it just me who finds this mad in 2022? Or is it still normal for men to be 100% the provider of the household?

I just couldn't imagine being stuck in a rubbish situation simply because of money

I am absolutely in no way slating stay at home mums, or house wives here either. I just believe all women should be self sufficient enough that if they're in a bad situation they can walk away

I'd agree as they get older but I'm not sure what the link is under the age of 6, unless parents are openly making a point of saying that parenting is of less value than going out to work.

My kids definitely didn't understand what work was in any meaningful way except that dad went out during the day and mum went out at night. As they've no concept of money then how much either of us earned was not relevant.

Kids would have to make a value judgement that being looked after was if lesser value than going to work. However, if both parents work then they can't differentiate surely?

I'm not saying that children aren't in some way conditioned at home but going to school is significant, in that they're being taught and have achievement targets or are involved in sports. A long running BBC documentary showed just how significant this was.

@limemintice

Why is my vision paltry?

Women involved in all aspects of society and men sharing full responsibility for their children?

What an awful vision.

@Lunar27

Have a look at the research if you're interested.

Boys who have working mums are more likely to believe in equality / more likely to take on equal roles in the home

Girls are more likely to be successful I their chosen career

The research on schools is interesting to but most parents seem to resist discouraging gender stereotypes in schools too.

Topgub I think your bitter because your posts are nagging.

No your vision is that looking after children and any caring roles in society are 'lesser'. You can't value human emotion and the fact that people want different things in life. All that matters to you is who earns money. You can't conceive if equality in anything beyond financial terms. I would hate to be so insecure in my relationship that we couldn't appreciate each other for our strengths and support each other to be happy, even if that means we have different roles ti some extent. So stifling and depressing.

@Foxgluv

No they aren't.

Nagging is such a sexist term.

It doesn't even make sense. You're bitter because you're a nag?

What?!

@limemintice

Yeah that's a load of rubbish. And completely irrelevant to anything I've said.

You keep reverting to getting personal when you cant counter a point

@Foxgluv

I think it's unfair that not every woman financially can afford to be at home if they would prefer to be.

Unfair that all women can't afford to be at home instead of work if they'd prefer?

Who would you propose pays for this? And why only women?

This.

No Sofia not only women but it was women we were discussing. My OH would love to be a full time parent, it made more sense for our family that I didn't work.

Topgub you come across as bitter because you nag. I'm not sure what sex you are, so it's not sexist. It's how you portray yourself.

You seem to think you set the blue print for how all households should be managed. You've not once stated this solution to the problem that you're so wound up about. You haven't even been vague with this blueprint, you ignore the question.

Truth be told. Working or not working, I would never want to be as miserable as you are. Go and find some fulfillment. Obsessing and blaming other women for your perceived problems isn't doing you any favours.

Out of interest TopGub, supposing your husband suddenly came into millions tomorrow. Would you then leave him because this made you unequal as a couple?

If he wanted to buy a new house with that money, would you refuse to move in because that would be "living off a man in 2022?"

If, before children, your husband was offered a job overseas for a few years or perhaps indefinitely for a life-changing amount of money, would you refuse to go because "structural inequality."

If you were made redundant, would you go it alone rather than be ..... a SAHM!!!

@Foxgluv

Its not me that's so wound up they're resorting to personal attacks and insults.

How does being a 'nag' relate to being bitter?

I've asked multiple times for yourself or @limemintice to explain what it is I'm bitter about but no joy yet.

@limemintice

What an odd set of hypotheticals

If oh wanted to move abroad I wouldn't have gone, no. I wouldnt go now either.

If I was made redundant I'd get another job.

If he came into money I wouldn't be reliant on it.

You are asking me to psychoanalyse you over the internet? Really?

As I said to you before, in my view, yes you come across as bitter. Only you know why - why are you asking me? Only you know your background and what has moulded the person you are today.,

My issue with the SAHM crowd is when they move from “my husband and I agree that it’s better if I don’t work” (fine, whatever, that’s your business) to “I think it’s sad that society doesn’t value SAHM or pay women to stay at home”. Why on earth should anyone else pay for someone to choose not to work? If there was a massive societal benefit to SAHM as a form of parenting then maybe but there isn’t - outcomes aren’t that different from WOHM parenting. So no, society isn’t going to value SAHM above and beyond how it values parents generally, and nobody has produced a single cogent rationale for why we (as opposed to the other parent involved) should be funding women staying at home.

Tldr do what you want but don’t expect me or anyone else to value it or want to pay for it.

@limemintice

No.

I'm asking you to explain why you think I'm bitter..

What specifically am I bitter about?

What are you defining bitter as?

It seems an odd thing to accused someone of.

I've only seen it used to imply jealousy and wanting something someone else has.

Neither of those are true.

So I'm not sure how it can be related to wanting a more equal society?

For men to take on more childcare responsibility?

• If oh wanted to move abroad I wouldn't have gone, no. I wouldnt go now either.

Why does this not surprise me...,

• If I was made redundant I'd get another job.

What if you couldn't though or it took months / years? Oh my god, you would be.., a SAHM!

• If he came into money I wouldn't be reliant on it.

How would that work in practise though? "Oh sorry kids, yes, dad wants to go on this amazing holiday / buy this new house / do x,y,z , but NO! I will not be joining you! I'll be damned if I am financed by a man. in 2022! Let this be a great model of marriage to you both. So go alone with him. Yes, I'll stay here and continue my campaign for structural equality on MN.

@limemintice

You do realise not everyone is like YOU?!

🤣

It wouldn't take me years months to get a job. I could walk into a job tomorrow.

I didnt say I wouldnt spend his imaginary money. I just wouldn't be reliant on it

@rainbowmilk but parenting is work. Are you saying it’s not?

Obviously I am trying to illustrate to you some of the ways women can become SAHMs. There are many, many more.

In another life, you might have had a job where you couldn't just walk into another one the next day.

In another life, you might have met a man who worked internationally. Or a man from another country. Or different culture. Or who earned a lot more then you and there's nothing you could do about it.

In any of these circumstances, you might well have made different decisions. You might well have found yourself as a SAHM.

@limemintice

I wouldnt.

I'm fully aware of how our sexist society forces women into feeling they have no choice.

Kind of the point of what I've been saying

Of course it’s work. But to be paid for work, it needs to be of value to someone. Being a SAHM is not work which is of sufficient value to society that society itself will pay for it.

It may be of sufficient value to the earning parent, in which case crack on, but expecting the rest of us to pay you to parent your own kids is totally unreasonable.

But you are happy to pay someone else to parent your child? And why is it not of sufficient value, maybe it should be.

@Topgub you have been using the terminology "parental responsibility" and i have never seen any research that backs up or you can not explaain with regards to "parental responsibility" how thats effecting children.

It can only be an opinion if you believe it makes a difference in a parents responsibility if they work or not

Ok so @Topgub do you believe by going to work you are forfeiting some of your parental responsibility?

If the answer is No, then a SAHM has no affect on that.
If the answer is yes, you are saying working parents are shirking their responsibility.
You can't have it both ways, its one or the other.

Yes, so you would ideally have women out working when they dont want to, or you want all women to have exactly the same priorities, privilages, opportunities, social and economic status as eachother and if that is the case, sort that element out first before your first port of call for equality being simplified as, lets blame the women 🙄

And yes you are blaming women, saying they are keeping other women out of the workplace, no sorry it doesn't wash , its opportunity, childcare cost, cost of living, static wages etc just to name a few are a contributing factor of keeping other women out of the workplace
You will now say you acknowledge them also, but you didn't mention them earlier on in your posts, before they were brought to you🤔 and they should come way, way before the SAHMs berating

Yes some children follow and repeat what they know.
SAHM (the ones i know) instill in their children the importance of choice, to both boys and girls. So they know that.

They also see their parents cooking, cleaning, doing childcare, fixing cars, baking etc. So they know that as well.

At 7 or 8, non of my friends or any of our now relatives are talking about breastfeeding. I think, to even think they can fully comrehend what it involves is ridiculous, to then think they can make an informed decision is ludicrous, of course a 7 year old wont want a baby hanging of its boob, it barely wants a boob at all at 7.

When i was BFing there were lots and lots of reasons women didnt BF, yes the fact that others didnt and it was seen to some as a bit embarrassing was on the list of reason's amongst so many.

Yes i believe its massively important to educate our children that anyone can be anything. Our DS is 4, he already knows there are predominantly not boys jobs and girls jobs, he knows a woman can do any job as can a man.
He also knows childcare is a joint responsibility as that is shown in our home to him every single day.

I have never said sexist behaviours aren't copied if not educated out of people?
I have said being a SAHM doesnt effect parental responsibility, very different
I dont belive choosing to be a SAHM is sexist either ?