To be shocked that in the 21st century there's still a staggering amount of women who rely entirely on their husbands?

[EllieRosesMammy]

I see it far too often on MN, women saying their husbands have been cheating on them for years or treating them absolutely terribly, but saying they can't leave because they are entirely financially dependent on their husbands.

Is it just me who finds this mad in 2022? Or is it still normal for men to be 100% the provider of the household?

I just couldn't imagine being stuck in a rubbish situation simply because of money

I am absolutely in no way slating stay at home mums, or house wives here either. I just believe all women should be self sufficient enough that if they're in a bad situation they can walk away

Is there a reason you're being so antagonist?
You wrote something, I responded .... that's how this works 🤷🏼‍♀️

@limemintice

Are you trying to ask me if I would respect a woman in an Islamic marriage who was subservient to her husband? Who was controlled and oppressed by her husband?

No.

I wouldnt

But I still don't know why you've dragged Islam into it

Its no different to not respecting a Christian woman who believes she should be subservient

Yes I look down on women that rely on men. Or women that brag about the materialistic stuff they have but only due to their husbands wealth as if it's meant to impress me. It's pathetic.

I was asking because it often strikes me that this forum is called MUMSnet, but really it's only a certain type of mum. It's not only very British, but a specific type of British in terms of the dominant perspective and accepted rhetoric which is a shame because it prevents a lot of women from coming on here.

@limemintice

Oh dear.

No you wouldn't get it. Of course.

What about women who work but still rely on their husbands?
I work part time but definitely couldn't afford our lifestyle even if i worked full time. Me working really makes no difference. I work because I love me job but it has no real financial benefit in my circumstances.

@limemintice

Nah I just dont believe that's why you're asking.

Or that I'm personally responsible for preventing Muslim mums from joining mumsnet.

I may be dominant but I've only been here a few weeks, that would be some feat.

Is there a reason you're being so antagonist?

Your reply was just irrelevant to mine. You said, depends on the job surely? No, not for me. Which is what I was talking about. You acted as if I was unaware other people have jobs they like.

I am East Asian and did not grow up in the UK, and I am not sure the whole working mum/non-working debate is wholly related to feminism. I think my home country is far behind the UK in terms of sexism, but virtually every woman I knew growing up worked. It was because the option was available- a small island state meant that everyone's grandparents is available to provide childcare (the government even gives you a discount on your housing if you live in the same neighbourhood as your parents) plus being surrounded by poor countries meant that it was quite common for an average family to be able to afford a domestic helper. So there was no reason why a woman couldn't work; there wouldn't be much for her to do if she just stayed home. Not enough to justify losing her income anyway unless she fancied herself a socialite. We have quite a large population of Muslims in my home country and they all worked.

We have quite a high percentage of working mothers- 75% because even though childcare is expensive, there is availability. and a lot of them can be quite flexible with hours esp in urban areas. Availability means that families can choose to take the short term financial hit so that the woman can continue her career; bearing in mind that there are bigger expenses than infant childcare down the line- university etc which would be easier to pay with two incomes rather than one. Its different from a country like Germany where the hours for childcare are shorter so many mothers have even less of a choice.

This!!

I am asking because I do find MN quite one-dimensional because some people just go on and on about this SAHM / WOHM business as if that's all there is to it. To many people (and I'm thinking about quite a lot women I know) even the way the debate gets framed would just make no sense and I can't imagine how they would participate or be able to give honest perspectives.

Love your honesty!

Working CAN be totally shite I agree.

For me this means working for myself and working where I like (my house, co-working space, the beach, cafe, the gym). Which also means I can home-ed my eldest and be around for important appointments for my youngest at his special school.

DH does the same. We both are high earners. But even if one of us became hugely wealthy through work, inheritance, lottery win, we'd still do what we do. Neither of us would quit.

@Topgub

”Only that ideally, from an equality pov, both parents working and sharing childcare is better. It allows both parents to equally involved with the care of the kids and home and to have a chance at a career. Also better work life balance for both”

Equality doesn’t have to be 50:50 as you imply. In my relationship, I preferred to be at home with the dc, whilst dh went to work. Although he may not have physically been with the kids, he did his share of childcare, by earning money to support them. The work life balance for him and me was fine. Equality, for me, is being able to choose. We went for a traditional model, for you it may work best 50:50, and for other people, the woman works and the man looks after the children. One size doesn’t fit all.

@Riverlee

I dont subscribe to choice feminism.

Your way isn't improving equality.

So, what do you suggest? That no one becomes a SAHM?

@Riverlee

Ideally, no.

But there's no way to achieve that.

Ideally we'd raise boys and girls to think they can be equal. To think parenting is the responsibility of both parents. That both can work and look after their kids

Or that men and women in equal numbers chose to be sahp / go part time

People don't actually want equality though so...

I became disabled and eventually was forced to give up work. Apart from my disability benefit, I'm completely reliant on my husband. He's the best thing since sliced bread so I don't feel vulnerable but I can appreciate what you're saying, OP.

Ideally, no

But there's no way to achieve that.

Ideally we'd raise boys and girls to think they can be equal. To think parenting is the responsibility of both parents. That both can work and look after their kids

Or that men and women in equal numbers chose to be sahp / go part time

People don't actually want equality though so..

But you are contradicting yourself, how can you say that noone should be a SAHP, but then say that as many men should choose to do it, so its equal numbers ? Its nonsense.

You talk about bringing kids up to think parenting is equal. Being a SAHP doesn't change that at all , as a working parent still parents it child?? They dont stop being an equal parent because they work, so it doesn't alter that ethos one bit.

Your arguments are obsurd. How on earth can you talk about empowering women when you are attempting to dictate to them and remove their right to choose.

@Topgub

I don’t disagree with anything you say there, and parenting is the responsibility of both parents, and being an sahm doesn’t preclude you from teaching your dc to look consider all options when growing up.

@3WildOnes I assume though that if you and your husband were to split up that with your job and the additional tax credits that you would qualify for then that would allow you to support yourself and your children? Of course your lifestyle would be a lot different but you'd be able to get by. It's women that don't work, who if their husband were to leave them tomorrow would have no way to support themselves or their children that I just can't understand. Women should always be able to support themselves financially as should men (of course certain circumstances make this impossible - illness. disabilities etc.) I just think it would be a horrible place to be having to rely on another person to fund my lifestyle knowing it could all be taken away from me the next day.

@keepsane so how many hours a week does a woman have to work for you not to look down on them?

Just wondering what your threshold is as you say its ok to be supported by tax credits just wondering.

I mean, i look down on people like yourself who judge a whole group of people like you do without knowing ounce of information about them.

No, I was just engaging in conversation.
You decided to get all arsey about it unnecessarily.

It is relevant to this debate because there is often a narrative that those that are working are either doing it out of necessity or just to pay for luxuries.
The concept of people working because they really enjoy what they do is often not discussed.

@tiggergoesbounce

I said ideally no one would be a sahm. Not sahp. or that it would be an equal choice for men and women.

And of course wp still parent. But there's no denying that having a sahm often allows men to advance their careers while removing women from the workforce completely

It reinforces and entrenches the idea that child care is solely a womans job.

If that's how you want to live and raise your kids then that's up to you. I'm literally not stopping anyone.

@brookstar

Its ok for men to enjoy working.

But not women.

They should only really work if they absolutely have to and they should hate every minute